Chris against LloydsTSB

[tscw1]

Hi all

 

I've sent the Data Protection Act letter and Lloyds TSB have got back to me requesting £10 from my account for the information. I'm waiting for the £10 to come out of my account and the information to arrive, they say they have 40 days from the date they get the money.

 

A few years back I was in deep financial trouble (not compared to some on this site) and it seemed LloydsTSB had a vendetta against me, I was being fined every month and it was leaving me broke. Due to the excessive charges there was only enough to pay the bills if I starved so I took enough money to live on out and I was fined again, but there was no way out of this, infact it took months to get out of it including time in their collections dept. Every plea I made fell on deaf ears and some were quite rude to me on the phone.

 

Remember every Direct Debit they bounced and charged me £30 for I also had to still pay the direct debit as well as the 3rd parties fees ontop.

 

an example is the TV license fee DD tried to come out (£10) and was bounced - £30 charge, TV license fee automatically tried again 2 weeks later - another £30, so they charged me £60 for a £10 DD. I couldn't afford the measly £10 as I already paid £80 in fees that month. in 2004 alone I was charged over £800 from Lloyds

 

Finding this site has brough a huge smile to my face, when I was reading other people's testimonies I knew Lloyds would be the biggest ********* I'm going to love getting this money back.

 

I'll keep you all updated on my progress

 

Chris

[snapper84]

Welcome to the forum Chris, keep us updated, make sure you read the FAQ thoroughly and lastly Goooood Luck

 

Cheers

Steven

[tscw1]

I've decided to forgo the 40 days waiting and checked my statements via the internet, copied them into a spreadsheet and calculated it from there. I've emailed my Preliminary letter to '[email protected]' as follows below.

They haven't charged me as much as I thought they had, but in 18 month they did charge me over £800

 

 

 

XXXXXXX

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

17 August 2006

LloydsTSB

Customer Service Recovery Centre

3rd Floor

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3SF

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXX

My Request:

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 4 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your Responsibilities:

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I Require:

I calculate that you have taken £746 plus £98.15 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £844.15. I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

My Targets to Resolve This Matter:

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Chris Wilson.

 

 

[Mistermind]

Chris, I suggest it is therapeutic to give the money vultures their own medicine. To wipe the self-righteous smiles off their faces. Only sad part is that with 4.5 months elapsed since OFT pronouncement of 5th April 2006 not enough victims have come forward to undo the damage previously inflicted on them.

 

The greedy shylocks should be put in stocks and have rotten eggs and tomatoes thrown at them.

[tscw1]

LloydsTSB have replied to my first letter via email dated Tue 22/08/2006 14:03:

 

Thank you for the e-mail.

I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy over the level of charges you have incurred on your Lloyds TSB account.

Under the circumstances, your e-mail has been passed on to the Manager of the Complaints Unit within Service Recovery. I have asked that he notes your comments and issues raised and arranges for a response be sent to you at the earliest opportunity.

In case you haven't received a copy of our leaflet called 'How to voice your concerns' I've attached one to my e-mail. This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

Regards

Doug Whitehouse

Lloyds TSB - Customer Service Recovery

Birmingham

 

ha ha, I now know how to "voice my concerns" thanks to this website and I'm looking forward to getting all my money back

 

I can't wait for the 14 days to be up so I can send the LBA.

 

I've also became a bit of a bore telling everyone that they can get their money back from banks. I might add a link to this website in my work email signature too.

 

Chris

[tscw1]

I know it's a day early, but I've emailed my letter before action now. I've had an email reply and 2 identical letters posted to me from Lloyds TSB, but no offer of a settlement yet

 

LloydsTSB

Customer Service Recovery Centre

3rd Floor

125 Colmore Row

Birmingham

B3 3SF

31 August 2006

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxx

 

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the 18th August 2006 in a satisfactory manner. I now understand that the fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful in Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £746 plus £98.15 which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £844.15.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 18th January 2006

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you on the 15th September 2006 for the full amount, plus interest, plus my costs

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

Chris Wilson[/font]

[tscw1]

I got another reply via letter basically telling me I have no leg to stand on and I can contact the financial ombudsman etc, I'll type it all up when at home next if I have the time between watching TV and eating my tea.

 

However I'm still counting down the days until I put this in court plus the extra interest I'll earn!

[reload]

Hiya tscw1,

 

Sounds like their bog standard final reply, a copy can be found in my template response letters thread in this forum if you want to copy and paste it rather than type it out

 

Keep it up!

[tscw1]

I only have one worry, I'm actually emigrating on 30th Dec so I wont be able to go to court after that date. I'm planning to enter my N1 form to Newcastle magistrates on Friday (all printed out and ready ) do you think the time line is too short?

[reload]

I believe you should be fine - the current state of play for SC&M (Lloyds' solicitors) seems to be to offer a settlement around the point of the Allocation Questionnaire being filed - which will be within approx 5-6 weeks of you filling your claim. This does assume they file a defense, which in one or two cases they've slipped up on.

 

One thing I intend to do should my round 2 progress to that stage (in other words, one thing I will do) is check to see whether Lloyds request an additional 30 days to reach settlement on their Allocation Questionnaire. If they do so, I'll be straight on the phone to SC&M saying "Well, you want to reach settlement. So settle me."

[tscw1]

The letter is so much quicker to produce if you just cut and paste...wait there isn't that what the banks do?

 

Dear Mr/Mrs xxxxxx,

 

Re: Account Charges for Overdraft Excesses and Returned Items

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your account.

 

I understand that

 

• You feel that the charges you have incurred are unlawful.

• You are unhappy with the amount of charges you have incurred as a result of being overdrawn and from returned items.

• You have requested that all charges incurred should be refunded for the past 4 years totalling £xxxx.xx.

When you became a customer, we gave you details of any charge for the day to day running of your account. Details of our charges are also available from our branch staff, telephone helpline or our website.

 

For the vast majority of our customers banking with us can be completely free as charges are not made for services such as debit cards, cash machine withdrawals, balance requests, statements, cheque books and Internet banking. We also do not charge for processing Direct Debits and Standing Orders when they are paid through our customers' accounts.

 

One of the few services we apply charges for are when a customer does not have enough money in their account to meet payments they have requested us to make. If customers think they may exceed any limit they have, we urge them to contact us to discuss their requirements. Any requests for further lending are then assessed in line with our usual credit policy. Similarly, when we return an item, we are preventing a customer from exceeding their limit, and again as we explain clearly to our customers, this process incurs a charge.

 

Typically, we do not levy customers an excess overdraft fee the first time they go overdrawn without an agreement, as long as it hasn't happened in the past twelve months and we limit excess fees to a maximum of three occurances in any one month.

 

As a business we are entitled to set charges to cover additional work. These charges are not hidden and are notified in the guide to banking charges leaflet we produce. We advise our customers to ensure cleared funds are available in their accounts to meet payments due. You will also note that in the front of each cheque book we request that funds are available before cheques are issued.

 

You incurred charges because you did not ensure funds were available in your account to cover the payments set up by you. It is your responsibility to operate your account within any agreed limits and within the terms and conditions.

 

You accepted these terms when you opened your account and when you agreed your overdraft (I don't have one?). We did not agree to pay your account in excess of the amount agreeed without charges being made.

 

Accordingly, I am unable to agree with your request to refund these charges. We do expect your account to be run in line with the terms and conditions of its operation. This means that you must ensure that cleared funds are deposited into the account the working day before any payments are due. If you do not feel you will be able to run your account in accordance with the terms and conditions, we may have to consider withdrawing certain facilities, such as any debit cards, overdrafts and chequebooks. Alternatively, you may wish to consider alternative banking arrangements.

 

If you are unhappy with my decision and feel that you have something to add which might change the outcome, please get in touch. If we cannot agree on a solution at that point, I will help you refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service for independent arbitration.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Thanks Reload

[vixsmith]

Hi

 

Sorry not sure if this is the right place to ask, but is it the same process for reclaiming bank charges on a sole trader business account???

 

Thanks:)

[tscw1]

If it's a business account you should, check http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/27918-viv16-lloyds-settlement-offered.html as that was a business account and they got a settlement

[tscw1]

Well it's the 15th of Sept so I walked down to the magistrates with my N1 form with the sun in my face. I got there, got scanned taking all metallic objects out of my pocket, returned them to my pocket and walzed to the reception desk

"You need to take that to the Quayside, you can't do it here" I was told, so back out into the sun walked through Newcastle and people enjoying a dinnertime pint in the pub and down to the picturesque quayside in Newcastle to the law courts, got there, got scanned again an went to reception. I was told to go to the reception on the 1st floor, which is where I went. I then stood behind some charvas handing in folders who were bragging to each other who 'the old hag' was the most nastiest to. When it was my turn I handed my form in with a smile to be told, you've got £30 court costs here it'll cost you £120! hmmm so then I took my form back walked up the steep banks from the quayside with the bloody sun at my back, past the people who shouldn't be drinking on a work day then got back to work sweating. I then entered my details in moneyclaim to be told it was £120 there too. Where the hell did I get £30 from????? thankfully Barclaycard was to the rescue so my claim has been started.

[tscw1]

My entry to the moneyclaim website is as follows, it's a pain getting it to fit inside the word and line limit:

I’ve a contract with LloydsTSB dated pre Oct 01 which is conducted on their terms and conditions. I’m claiming the return of money taken by LloydsTSB without my agreement in the way of charges over the last 6 years (£841). LloydsTSB’s charges are a disproportionate penalty so unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. I have repeatedly asked the bank to justify their charges but they have declined to do so. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 9/10/01 to 15/9/06 of £841 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.2257% (£173.02)

[tscw1]

on reflection and checking the PDF from moneyclaim about the claim there are a few questions.

 

1) it's in Northampton, how do I change that to somewhere nearer?

2) my account number isn't on there, but my name and address is, is this a problem?

[GaryH]

Northampton is just the bulk court for claims issued through MCOL - when Lloyds file a defence your case will be transferred to your local court automatically.

 

Would'nt worry about the account number not being included, no one else has had a problem so it'll be fine. What is advisable though, is to send a copy of your schedule to the court and request that it be attached to your particulars of claim.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Gary

[tscw1]

Thanks for your help Gary, you've eased a few little worries there.

[tscw1]

Lloyds TSB have acknowledged my claim on the 22/9/06 according to Moneyclaim, I guess they have 28 days to submit a defence and then I get the Allocation Questionnaire

[tscw1]

**Following the words of Reload here is my self bump**

 

I'm just waiting for my Allocation Questionnaire, this stage is quite boring, but keeping up to date with the other posts. I like the idea of having LloydsTSB successes thread too.

 

Chris, waiting impatiently

[tscw1]

Lloyds TSB 28 days are up from the 16th October, (it was acknowledged on the 22nd).

 

However when in Moneyclaim and I try to start Judgement, it says I need to give them 28 days if they have acknowledged my claim. I have done that though and it still wont work...grrr

[bearo]

Give MCOL a call, number on their website.

[tscw1]

I've phoned Moneyclaim like advised and learnt Lloyds get an extra 5 days of service? on top of their 28 days! This means they have up until midnight Monday 23rd October to enter a defence.

 

Like usual in this country it's the accused that have all the rights and assistance, but never the people who have been sh*t on in the 1st place.

[sobeski]

hey chris!!! am going through the same thing you did!! i like you used the internet to get all my details for the charges, sent my premlinary letter. I have now had my response from lloyds who told me that "this our final response." and if i still wasent happy then i should go to the fincial ombudsman!!! am so confused!! should i now send the LBA letter or go the ombudsman???????

[Mistermind]

While continuing with the county court Small Claims lawsuit,

I would additionally send a letter to Lloyds posing a question --

 

"In directing your customer to switch from an ongoing county court lawsuit to the Banking Ombudsman, are you Lloyds TSB, sir, trying to demonstrate contempt for the county court judge, contempt for the law of England?"