PCN for alleged contravention 32JP

[LauraG]

Hello,

 

Would be grateful for some help on this. I have received a PCN for alleged contravention 32JP - failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign (PCN attached) on Riversdale Road in Islington. From the photographs it is clear this did happen. My dispute is that having just turned into the road the junction is rather confusing - although there is the blue arrow, there is no hatching in the box as in other junctions of this nature, the lines on the road are very faded and the double yellow lines on the left create an optical illusion that make it look too narrow to go through and more like a cycle lane. I might be clutching at straws here, but would like to fight this charge as it seems like Islington are making a killing on this given they see fit to have someone observing the junction real time!

 

Thanks for any help.

PCN.pdf

[green_and_mean]

Hello,

 

Would be grateful for some help on this. I have received a PCN for alleged contravention 32JP - failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign (PCN attached) on Riversdale Road in Islington. From the photographs it is clear this did happen. My dispute is that having just turned into the road the junction is rather confusing - although there is the blue arrow, there is no hatching in the box as in other junctions of this nature, the lines on the road are very faded and the double yellow lines on the left create an optical illusion that make it look too narrow to go through and more like a cycle lane. I might be clutching at straws here, but would like to fight this charge as it seems like Islington are making a killing on this given they see fit to have someone observing the junction real time!

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

Is the car yours or do you hire it? The 'offence' seemed to be in August making the PCN out of time?

[LauraG]

Hi,

 

The car is mine. The offence was for the 24th August sent to me on 9th November.

[lamma]

this is a well known trap set up to make money. do a google on it. isn't the distance it is from the junction too short ?

[green_and_mean]

Appeal on the grounds the PCN was issued 'out of time' the PCN must be issued within 28 days unless the DVLA delays sending out the owner details which is unlikely unless the V5 has recently been changed.

[LauraG]

Thank you Green! I will do that...

[Zamzara]

That's a keep left rather than a turn left. Is failure to comply with a keep left a decriminalised matter?

 

And is it correct to describe that as "failing to drive in the direction shown..."?

[green_and_mean]

That's a keep left rather than a turn left. Is failure to comply with a keep left a decriminalised matter?

 

And is it correct to describe that as "failing to drive in the direction shown..."?

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/02311331.gif

 

Diag 606 traffic must travel in direction indicated by the arrow

[green_and_mean]

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/02311332.gif

 

Is the sign used but unless you could argue the wording of the PCN does not mean the same as follow the instructions given by the arrow its not a valid defence

 

Sign shown in diagram 610 and its significance

15. - (1) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), the requirement conveyed by the sign shown in diagram 610 shall be that vehicular traffic passing the sign must keep to the left of the sign where the arrow is pointed downwards to the left, or to the right of the sign where the arrow is pointed downwards to the right.

[credit allergy]

I have looked at the photos. In my opnion you would be hard pressed to claim that the signs etc were misleading. There is a big keep left sign and one on the bollard. However there is a code covering the use of cameras by local councils in respect of traffic offences. I will re read it but the one thing that springs to mind is this. The camera opeator cannot view the film later so therefore they hve to watch you in real time. Sothat is an anvuenue worth exploring. Let me read the code again and reply later. It also covers the time limit for issueing of pcns.

[credit allergy]

The Code of practice I have just read says pcns should be issued within 14 days and the operator should see the offence as it is happening in real time. The code of practice supplies the minimum standards and must be abided too by the council using cameras. So I would appeal to the council on the grounds that it appears that there has been a delay in issue and therefore a possible breach. I am assuming the car was registered at the right address etc. If the council dont accept your appeal can appeal to the adjucication service who might want to know why there was a delay. hope this helps these are all my own opnions etc.

[green_and_mean]

The Code of practice I have just read says pcns should be issued within 14 days and the operator should see the offence as it is happening in real time. The code of practice supplies the minimum standards and must be abided too by the council using cameras. So I would appeal to the council on the grounds that it appears that there has been a delay in issue and therefore a possible breach. I am assuming the car was registered at the right address etc. If the council dont accept your appeal can appeal to the adjucication service who might want to know why there was a delay. hope this helps these are all my own opnions etc.

 

Its a code of practice there is no obligation to abide by it, however the statute states 28 days as I already pointed out so this is the correct initial appeal.

[credit allergy]

I am not doubting you but can you quote the legislation for the 28 day rule this stuff always comes in useful!

[crem]

From the number of times this same traffic hazzard appears on the forum with people seeking help, it seems logical to conclude there is something misleading in this particular area.

 

From the photos, on this thread and others, it does look like it is quite clear cut, but I can't believe so many people can make what appears to be a simple mistake unless the hazzard looks more confusing "on the ground".

 

Likewise you would think that if the council want to stop people making this mistake they would re-look at how the markings are laid out or something to make it clearer. That would, of course, ensure that they derive no further income from this roadwhich may not be so appealing to them.

Edited November 23, 2009 by crem

[green_and_mean]

From the number of times this same traffic hazzard appears on the forum with people seeking help, it seems logical to conclude there is something misleading in this particular area.

 

From the photos, on this thread and others, it does look like it is quite clear cut, but I can't believe so many people can make what appears to be a simple mistake unless the hazzard looks more confusing "on the ground".

 

Likewise you would think that if the council want to stop people making this mistake they would re-look at how the markings are laid out or something to make it clearer. That would, of course, ensure that they derive on further income from this roadwhich may not be so appealing to them.

 

Hundreds of people also park on bus stops, zig zags and other blatently obvious restrictions every week I think a high percentage just assume that as there is no one about its safe to do so. Not everyone frequents forums such as this and the idea of CCTV enforcement for anything other than bus lanes is not common knowledge.

[crem]

Hundreds of people also park on bus stops, zig zags and other blatently obvious restrictions every week I think a high percentage just assume that as there is no one about its safe to do so. Not everyone frequents forums such as this and the idea of CCTV enforcement for anything other than bus lanes is not common knowledge.

 

The difference being though that when people park on zig zags or bus stops they have generally done so intentionally (albeit illegally) knowing full well they shouldn't, but they can't be bothered to go and park where they should, hoping or believing they will not get caught.

 

In this particular error with these bollards, there is no benefit to the driver in getting from this side of the bollards to the other either by driving (correctly) around the left hand side, or by making this driving mistake of going through the middle section. Therefore I don't follow that they are doing so in blatant breach of the traffic signs, but more so because of a genuine mistake.

[credit allergy]

grean and mean have you been able to locate the relevant legislation in respect of 28 days for issuing pcns. regards credit allergy

[JimmySpangle]

Once again with this junction, the signs are crystal clear. Two very clear 'keep left' signs. You would need to be Mr McGoo not to see them. If you cannot see those signs, how are you going to see a child in the road?

 

I am sorry, but there is nothing confusing about the width restriction at all. It is set up to restrict the width of vehicles using the road, but the area in the centre is to allow certain large vehicles through, ie fire appliances, refuse vehicles.

 

People obviously have not obeyed the signs and cameras were installed presumably to catch lorries driving along the road that shouldn't. As a bonus they are catching car drivers who have become dizzy at the prospect of a blue sign.

[green_and_mean]

The difference being though that when people park on zig zags or bus stops they have generally done so intentionally (albeit illegally) knowing full well they shouldn't, but they can't be bothered to go and park where they should, hoping or believing they will not get caught.

 

In this particular error with these bollards, there is no benefit to the driver in getting from this side of the bollards to the other either by driving (correctly) around the left hand side, or by making this driving mistake of going through the middle section. Therefore I don't follow that they are doing so in blatant breach of the traffic signs, but more so because of a genuine mistake.

 

One word springs to mind......laziness. Its much easier to scoot thru the middle than slow down to squeeze thru the restriction we also don't know how many vehicles are caught because they are oversize. You only have to look at some width restrictors to see they are covered with a multitude of paint colours and surrounded with stray bodywork to realise that people a) cannot judge their vehicle size b) do not know how big their vehicle is c) have poor vehicle control. Obviously some people are just making mistakes but as you say its as clear as day, some people cannot be helped.

[credit allergy]

Green and mean any luck yet. regards credit allergy!

[green_and_mean]

Green and mean any luck yet. regards credit allergy!

 

Limitation on service of penalty charge notice

(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply ocurred.

 

London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 (c. 3)

[credit allergy]

Thats very useful thank you. Although you will see subsec 6 applies where delay in particulars being received from DVLA takes place. So basically a request must be in time for the pcn to be valid. So I suppose this is to allow against non registering of owners details etc.

[Zamzara]

BTW it seems a keep left sign is included within the scope of TMA 2004:

 

Traffic Management Act 2004 (c. 18)

 

Though I still think the PCN may be flawed as it uses the wrong description.

[green_and_mean]

BTW it seems a keep left sign is included within the scope of TMA 2004:

 

Traffic Management Act 2004 (c. 18)

 

Though I still think the PCN may be flawed as it uses the wrong description.

 

Not as flawed as your opening statement, the section of the TMA 2004 that covers moving traffic is not yet in force. ;-)

[Zamzara]

Thanks for that, is there any simple way to find out which parts are in force without reading every commenecement order?

 

The same list of contraventions is also in the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 so I guess that is the right authority?