Redundancy threat 10 days before qualifying for maternity pay

[kateandpete]

Yesterday management held a meeting with six members of staff to let us know that they need to cut costs and will need to reduce the pay from the group. We were told that we had 48 hours to come up with suggestions and if this did not happen then it may become necessary to make someone redundant. There is to be a meeting held on Monday to inform us of the decisions made as a result of this consultation. Nothing has been given to any of us in writing at this stage.

 

I am currently 23 weeks pregnant, thus if I am made redundant with immediate effect I stand to lose my entitlement to maternity pay. When I reach the qualifying week at 25 weeks (1st November) even if made redundant I understand I will be entitled to full statutory maternity pay.

 

Is it likely that they will be able to complete the redundancy process in time to make me lose my entitlement if I am the individual selected?

 

My contract states that there is a two month notice period, but does include an option for them to pay me in lieu of notice.

 

Additionally I may be prepared to accept voluntary redundancy if the terms are reasonable and timing such that my maternity pay is safeguarded. Do you think an offer to this effect will make me more of a target?

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Send a PM to some of the HR experts I am aware of elche, sidewinder, ell-een and mariefab, asking that they Look at your thread, please include a link to your thread,

[elche]

Hi,

 

Pls can you post:

 

1) Your start date of employment.

2) Approx salary, and

3) EWC from matB1 form

 

We can give you some definitive answers then.

 

Che

[kateandpete]

Hi,

thanks for getting back to me

 

I have been employed by them since March 2007.

My current salary is approx 28k.

I do not have my MATB1 yet but my due date has been given as 18th Feb 2010 so I expect it to be recorded as the week beginning 14th February.

Directgov gives 1st Nov as the beginning of the qualifying week.

 

I went to the CAB today as we were given a 48 hour to put any proposals on the table (ie by today at the latest). We have been led to believe

that they will then make decisions based upon these and we will be told

what their decisions are at a meeting on Monday. I have still had no

written notification of any of this.

 

As it could be advantageous to me to take voluntary redundancy (preferable to keeping my job if the conditions are right), and we have been told that we need to make some form of offer collectively if we wish to avoid a compulsory redundancy situation I have made an offer to them. I sent thefollowing today:

 

Further to our discussion on Wednesday 21st October 2009 when staff were asked to consider means of reducing the payroll I would like to make an offer of voluntary redundancy subject to conditions.

 

I am not able to consider a decrease in my contractual pay or hours.

 

The following offer only stands if all constituent parts are to be honoured.

 

· Redundancy notice to be issued no earlier than 3rd November 2009 and no later than 30th November 2009

· Two months’ contractual notice from this date to be split thus:

o I will continue to be employed by and work for the company on my

current pay and hours until 11 weeks before the week in which my

baby is due (expected due date 18th February 2010). This gives a date

of 30th November 2009.

o The remainder of the two months’ contractual notice to be paid in lieu, thus terminating my employment on 30th November. This would be

paid on or before 30th November.

 

· An additional redundancy/severance payment of one month’s salary to be

made (to include the statutory payment of two weeks’ pay subject to statutory limits). This would be paid on or before 30th November.

· Statutory Maternity Pay to be paid from 1st December 2009 and for the full period of my entitlement. To be paid monthly rather than as a lump sum.

 

I consider the offer to be advantageous to the company for these reasons.

 

o No provision will need to be made for my maternity leave if the required

hours/pay reduction comes from my employment rather than that of my

colleagues.

o No provision will need to be made to ensure adequate cover for my pregnancy specific health and safety requirements. I am concerned that if other staff hours are cut it will become impossible to honour many of the points laid out in my risk assessment. Business decisions cannot be allowed to override healthand safety considerations.

o Disruption to the workforce would be minimised if a voluntary offer is

accepted.

o Payment required over and above the contractual and statutory minimums (two months notice, two weeks redundancy payment) is minimal.

o It is my understanding that the maternity pay to which I am entitled is largely (or entirely) refunded by government thus its payment should not be costly to the business.

o The monthly payment of my maternity pay will limit NI contributions.

 

I reserve the right to have a solicitor look at any agreement which is later drawn up as a result of this offer before I finally and formally agree to it, and to be given reasonable time to do so.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Kateandpete

I would have liked to have had longer to consider but was very concerned that it would be harder for me to make an offer after they had officially targeted me for redundancy (if this were to happen) when they had given us this 48h deadline. The solicitor at the CAB seemed to think the letter was ok in the circumstances. If they accept I will be really happy as it means that I will only be slightly worse off financially than if I stay and work until my EDD (default plan), but will get to start my maternity leave much earlier.

 

However, if they refuse my offer and rush through a compulsory redundancy my situation could be dire.

 

Thanks again

[kateandpete]

Forgot to add was made without prejudice, and in my covering email I stated that in the event it was not considered acceptable to the company I trust that its content will not be held against me in any future decisions.

[elche]

Well

 

This is interesting. Whilst the effective date of termination of your employment contract will be extended by the stat notice you are due (2 weeks), I don't think this will help as regards entitlement to SMP.

 

My recollection of the statutory scheme is that you must do 'some work' for your employer in the qualifying week and thereafter your entitlement to SMP is satisfied regardless of whether you are subsequently dismissed for reason of redundancy.

 

You do realise that there is a benefit called maternity allowance that is virtually identical to SMP? - if you have been working steadily then you will probably qualify for this.

 

I'm no benefits expert, but I think the only losses will be in the 1st 6 weeks (MA vs SMP @ 90% of wage) - do check this with a benefits expert.

 

Finally, you should wait for your MatB1 as it is all calculated on the EWC on this not what you have thus far been told, and if this were one week sooner, the qualifying week would also move.

 

Che

[kateandpete]

Yes, I understand i would need to do some work in that week so would not want them to issue my notice before the 3rd (qualifying date is the 1st and I would be at work on the 2nd). I would also, if they go for my suggestion, continue to work for them until the 30th Nov which is actually 11 weeks before the expected ECW so well past my qualifying week. I have selected this as my chosen time to actually stop working as it maximises the 90% pay for the 1st 6 weeks.

 

In addition to losing the 6 weeks at 90% which would be >2k for me, I believe the total period of time i could claim for would also be lower on MA.

 

thanks again for your help

[elche]

In addition to losing the 6 weeks at 90% which would be >2k for me, I believe the total period of time i could claim for would also be lower on MA.

 

I thought the maternity pay period under MA was the same i.e. 9 months?

 

As I said' I'm no benefits expert - is this wrong? if so, how long is MA paid for?

 

Che

[elche]

Also....

 

They are bound to be a bit nervous making a pregnant employee redundant - it always looks suspicious.

 

Can you use this as leverage to get enhanced vol red scheme?

 

Che

[kateandpete]

My mistake - it is also 9 months. I had thought it was 6. I've rechecked though and according to directgov as long my employment does not end before the 1st Nov they seem to imply I should be OK for SMP?

 

Cheers

[kateandpete]

I hope that that is the case. I did consider chancing a higher severance pay, but the risks feel quite large if they decline, so decided to go with what I think is fair.

 

I do find them quite unpredictable unfortunately and am not sure if they would really run scared of making me redundant. The speed with which they seem to be acting and the timing is making me wonder if it is being targeted specifically to avoid smp obilgations. I realise of course that they would not admit to this!

[lihi]

Hi

 

I am currently off on MA as I had not been employed long enough in new job. Loosing the 6 weeks was a pain but, when claiming Tax Credits they have told me if you receive SMP it is counted as a taxable income where as they do not count MA as a taxable income. I am therefore entitled to more money from Tax Credits.

 

Good luck

[elche]

The speed with which they seem to be acting and the timing is making me wonder if it is being targeted specifically to avoid smp obilgations.

 

NO,

 

This is surely not the case, as employer's can recoup the sums (most or/ more as a %, depending on amt) paid in SMP; and thus would have no real monetary incentive to avoid this?

 

Unless of course they are unaware of their right to reclaim payments of SMP...?

[kateandpete]

Thanks very much both of you.

 

I had realised that the tax on this year's portion of MA would be in my favour, but had totally failed to connect that with an increase in tax credits.

 

And yes, I hope they have realised they can recoup the smp, unless actual cash flow is so much of a problem they want to avoid it anyway?

[kateandpete]

So the meeting on Monday never went ahead. I delayed setting off on holiday (had booked this week off months ago) to attend but when I had been given no indication of time etc by 2pm I set off anyway. I have been in touch with colleagues and know no-one was told anything on Monday.

 

Today I have received two letters by email in response to my offer. The first (which I think was sent to all concerned) thanks for positive response to the meeting and states that due to further developments no decision will be made until after next Monday (2nd). The second seems much more aimed at me individually. It acknowledges my offer and states that they are giving serious consideration to my proposal and appreciate the time I have taken in assisting them with the needs of the business. They also acknowledge the fact that I am on holiday this week and invite me to a meeting on my return on Monday to discuss the proposal.

 

Overall I feel reasonably positive. After Monday I will be in my qualifying week and still employed by the business which was my major concern initially. However, I have realised one consideration which I had not factored in initially. By starting my maternity leave early more of the SMP will be payable in this tax year than would have been the case. This will increase my tax liability by (I estimate) £400. I am kicking myself for not noticing this earlier and putting it into my offer, but as they gave us only 48 hours to make offers I feel I was just doing my best to meet their timescales. I would like to draw this to their attention but do not wish to look disingenuous. It was an honest oversight in my calculations.

 

The offer I have made is really the lowest I can afford to take without it being preferable for me to fight for my job (I calculated it quite carefully rather than just plucking figures). It would have been easy to ask for a higher sum with the aim of negotiating down. I did not want to do this as i did not want to mess anyone around but now feel llike a bit of an idiot as I would like to add this sum on. Do you think this is doable whilst maintaining that the spirit and general structure of my offer remain unchanged?

 

Many thanks,

 

Kateandpete

[kateandpete]

Oh, another thing I wanted to ask... I can find this type of thing quite intimidating and especially so at the moment. Do you think it would look very unprofessional to ask that my husband be allowed to accompany me to the meeting (bearing in mind it is as a result of my offer rather than any action by them)? Financially he is as much affected as me by all of this and i would find it really helpful.