pcn @ 17.58. free parking from 18.00

[grumpi]

Hi all,

 

1st post but I have been getting advice from the various threads for a while now. Very helpful site.

 

My family did some shopping in Mcr yesterday. After giving the meter over £4 (and all the change we had), I could only get to 17.51. So I duly legged it back to the car in time, leaving family and most of the shopping with them.

 

After hanging round until 17.56 I went back to collect my family and the rest of the shopping.

 

Upon returning to the car we had a ticket. Got the ticket at 17.58 - free parking from 18.00 of course, but the tickets states that the car was being observed from 17.53. I don't believe this, as I was there also and I saw no warden.

 

Is this contestable, or should I just bite the bullet and hand over the £25 (which I really don't want to do)?

 

Regards

[lamma]

Council or PPC ?

[grumpi]

Manchester City Council

[Mossycat]

I don't see that you have grounds for contesting.

 

You admit the car was parked there at that time and you admit it didn't have a valid ticket at the time stated on the PCN, it matters not that you didn't see the warden, he saw your car and that's all that would be taken into account.

 

Personally I think it's extremely harsh and you obvioulsy got a real jobsworth of a warden.

 

Mossy

[lamma]

Is the PCN compliant ? Are the signs and lines ? is the traffic order ? does the council have a declared policy on observation times for this contravention ? was the CEO's clock correct ?

[green_and_mean]

The fact that is was free after 18.00 is irrelevant you are 7 mins late and to be fair you should be treated no different from someone that was 7 mins late at 9.00, 12.00 or any other time.

[lamma]

which leaves "Is the PCN compliant ? Are the signs and lines ? is the traffic order ? does the council have a declared policy on observation times for this contravention ? was the CEO's clock correct ?" the council has to get its stuff right.

[grumpi]

Thanks for weighing everyone.

 

After searching through MCC 's site, I can't find anything that looks like giving me the information about observation times etc.

 

Anyone any pointers?

 

Thanks again

[lamma]

Is the PCN compliant ? Are the signs and lines ? is the traffic order ?

[grumpi]

Hi Lamma,

 

I'm not sure what you mean? The parking lines are clear, otherwise it's double yellows. It's in the city centre so I can only guess that all appropriate markings are correct.

 

What else am I looking for?

 

Cheers

[lamma]

what the Traffic regulation order say ? the signs only indicate prohibitions, its the TRO that makes them. If the TRO is wrong or badly flawed you can win. is it in a CPZ ? are all the entrance signs correct for the CPZ are you sure the lines and signs are correct ? have you checked against the TSRGD ? is the PCN compliant - is the wording as it should be. do you know what compliant wording should be ?

[grumpi]

Having checked through everything, it looks pretty water-tight unfortunately.

 

It's not a cpz, as far as I'm aware. Looks like I'm going to have to pay:(

 

Is it an urban myth but I thought you are generally given 5-10 minutes over your time before you get a ticket?

[lamma]

so you are familiar with the correct wording of a PCN ? it either is watertight or it isn't. You have checked the TRO ? You haven't checked to see if its a CPZ. By all means pay it if you wish.

[grumpi]

Right,

 

It is in a tcz - the 2 hour band. Your correct, I don't know the correct wording and I'm also unsure of what a 'tro' (traffic regulation order?) does?

 

Thanks for sticking this out, and of course I would rather not pay if at all possible.

[grumpi]

Btw, the pcn is printed off a machine, so I presume there's not much room for error but of course I would love to be proved wrong(all the info on the ticket, that I'm aware of, is correct).

 

Cheers

[lamma]

post up a pic of the PCN - suitably washed of your personal details. They are all printed by machine - doesn't mean they are correct. Anyone on here know the status of manchester ones ? check the entry signage to the CPZ and get the TRO from the council. all their paperwork may be in order but unless you check you don't know.

[green_and_mean]

Is it an urban myth but I thought you are generally given 5-10 minutes over your time before you get a ticket?

 

Your ticket expired at 17.51 and you got a PCN at 17.58 that is 7 minutes! I have to say, if you returned in time as you stated and then left the car with its expired ticket to return to the shops you have really no one to blame than yourself.

[JOLEE]

The fact that is was free after 18.00 is irrelevant you are 7 mins late and to be fair you should be treated no different from someone that was 7 mins late at 9.00, 12.00 or any other time.

 

I have to agree that Manchester CC act the same in these instances.

 

I got a PCN from Manchester City Council at 8:05 - restricted parking having come into affect 5 mins earlier at 8:00

[green_and_mean]

I have to agree that Manchester CC act the same in these instances.

 

I got a PCN from Manchester City Council at 8:05 - restricted parking having come into affect 5 mins earlier at 8:00

 

Most Councils have a 'buffer' time each side of a restriction change usually 5 mins to allow for differences in clock times between ticket machines, CEOs machines, drivers watches etc and to prevent allegations of being over zealous. If the parking ended at 18.00 and the CEO saw your vehicle without ANY ticket at 17.58 you probably would not have received a PCN however it would be obvious in this situation that you had been parked with an expired ticket since 17.51.

[JOLEE]

Most Councils have a 'buffer' time each side of a restriction change usually 5 mins to allow for differences in clock times between ticket machines, CEOs machines, drivers watches etc and to prevent allegations of being over zealous. If the parking ended at 18.00 and the CEO saw your vehicle without ANY ticket at 17.58 you probably would not have received a PCN however it would be obvious in this situation that you had been parked with an expired ticket since 17.51.

 

And just to add at that time they had also authorised removal. So they are quick off the mark!