MOD Police FPN in Bristol Parkway - "no tax"

[aquabubble]

Hi,

 

Twelve days ago I received a Fixed Penalty Notice issued by the Ministry of Defence Police whilst I was parked at Bristol Parkway (a private car park as I understand it). The reason for giving it was stated as "NO TAX" with the offence code of "RV02038".

 

It so happened that my old tax disc was still displayed in the car and I had neglected to swap the new one in, despite it sitting in my glove box.

 

Now, if I had been parked on a public road, I would put my hands up and pay the £60 fine; however, in this case:

 

1. I was parked in a private car park

2. As I understand it, the MOD Police (MDP) has no juristiction in areas outside of MOD property or by special arrangement.

 

Unfortunately I have no right of reply apart from going to court, but in order to assess my chances I would like to know whether the FPN is valid. Does anyone have any ideas?

[green_and_mean]

The MOD Police were given greater powers under the anti terrorism, crime and security act 2001 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 (c. 24) but as far as I understand they can only do so if requested by the local force or BTP.

[mightymouse_69]

Even if the vehicle was not on a public road (i.e. off road) it would either have to be taxed or have a sorn.

 

As for the jurisdiction of the MDP - im not too sure. Although i think there were changes in 2001 that allowed them to operate in areas other than military bases etc.

[mightymouse_69]

Green and mean beat me

[green_and_mean]

If the FPN is for 'No Tax' then you are obviously innocent and should go to court if its for 'Not Displaying Tax' then your only hope is if they acted outside their juristriction.

[green_and_mean]

Spoke too soon just checked its for not displaying so you need to find out if they can issue in that location.

[aquabubble]

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately according to my ticket, I've got no right of reply apart from going to court. I would have no idea how I would discover if they had juristiction, apart from contacting a solicitor and attemting to uncover the evidence: it's not as if the MOD Police is the most open and communicative organisation! Either way, it seems like it could end up costing me lots of money.

 

I still have no idea though why a MOD Police Officer was patrolling Bristol Parkway car park!

[My Real Name]

..

Edited September 28, 2009 by My Real Name
already answered

[My Real Name]

A cursory look suggests that you would need to send an FOIA request to the local force, to find out whether the MOD constable had been requested to act on behalf of a local police constable, or the chief constable.

[68904]

When I was in the RAF, the MOD had powers on MOD property, and powers of a special constable when out and about in civvy street.

 

My recolection of MOD Plod is looking after the keys in the Guard Room, and little else.

[pin1onu]

Here is the legislation in PDF format. http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200102/cmbills/049/2002049.pdf.

 

See section 10. (Commences at bottom of page 53 of the PDF file)

[Realist]

(3C) Members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have in any police area

the same powers and privileges as constables of the police force for that

police area, and in Northern Ireland the same powers and privileges as

constables of the Police Service of Northern Ireland,—

(a) in relation to persons whom they suspect on reasonable

grounds of having committed, being in the course of

committing or being about to commit an offence; or

(b) if they believe on reasonable grounds that they need those

powers and privileges in order to save life or to prevent or

minimise personal injury.

(3D) But members of the Ministry of Defence Police have powers and

privileges by virtue of subsection (3C) above only if—

(a) they are in uniform or have with them documentary evidence

that they are members of the Ministry of Defence Police; and

(b) they believe on reasonable grounds that a power of a constable

which they would not have apart from that subsection ought to

be exercised and that, if it cannot be exercised until they secure

the attendance of or a request under subsection (3A) above by a

constable who has it, the purpose for which they believe it

ought to be exercised will be frustrated or seriously prejudiced.”

[gwc1000]

Am I missing something here? How can it be possible to be prosecuted for failing to display on private property?

[londoncass]

this has been discussed before... An untaxed vehicle is technically uninsured, therefore as it's in a public place (including privately owned publically accessible car parks) it is therefore a dodgy one.

 

This is where the cash cow comes in, because you are insured as you did have tax, but to make the job easier it is required to display the tax too!

[gwc1000]

I was under the impression that requirement for VED is only on land that is maintained at public expense irrespective of ownership. Also the OP has not been done for no insurance. I would dispute no tax = no insurance.

[green_and_mean]

33 Not exhibiting licence

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he uses, or keeps, on a public road a vehicle in respect of which vehicle excise duty is chargeable, and

(b) there is not fixed to and exhibited on the vehicle in the manner prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State a licence for, or in respect of, the vehicle which is for the time being in force.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale.

(3) Subsection (1)—

(a) has effect subject to the provisions of regulations made by the Secretary of State, and

(b) is without prejudice to section 29

[gwc1000]

G&M where did you quote from, and in that Act what is the definition of "public road"?

[mightymouse_69]

In relation to VED, public road would be one maitained with public funds.

 

...surely?

[green_and_mean]

Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c. 22)

 

“public road”—

(a)

in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and

 

(b)

in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the [1984 c. 54.] Roads (Scotland) Act 1984,

[gwc1000]

Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c. 22)

 

“public road”—

(a)

in England and Wales and Northern Ireland, means a road which is repairable at the public expense, and

 

(b)

in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the [1984 c. 54.] Roads (Scotland) Act 1984,

 

So, surely if this car park is not maintained at public expense there is no requirement for VED?

[mightymouse_69]

How would the OP go about finding out who maintains the road?

[green_and_mean]

How would the OP go about finding out who maintains the road?

 

He wasn't in a 'road' he was in a car park.

[mightymouse_69]

Ok then, how does he find out who maintains the carpark?

 

If the land owner ( and individual or corporate body) maintains the car park, then it is not public in relation to VED.

[green_and_mean]

Ok then, how does he find out who maintains the carpark?

 

If the land owner ( and individual or corporate body) maintains the car park, then it is not public in relation to VED.

 

The offence is not displaying on a public road a car park is not a road whether public or not.

[Andy77799]

Hmm interesting............