MBNA sent someone elses CCA(!) and now harrashing me

[seanj70]

after weekes of waiting MBNA finally sent thru what they called a true copy of my CCA

 

there was one set of docs with my address on but no signature, however another set of 'CCA' docs with someone else's name and address! surely that's breach of Data Protection??

 

anyway - i've sent the usual template letter back saying they didn't supply a true copy etc... and havent yet heard regarding that.

 

...but they are calling every day saying i'm in arrears and need payment and they've written and emailed threatening passing to a collection agency despite my written request not to call me in my last letter.

 

i now want to write to them (again) clarifying that we're in dispute and i want to report to the OFT and ICO (re: data protection) are there any templates for this?

 

how do i take this further? should i get one of these debt litigation companies involved?

[haggis1984]

Hi,

 

Id never recommend someone use those debt litigation companies, you can do it all yourself.

 

Did you send this letter:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

To stop them calling try this letter:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/52-harassment/135--harassment-by-telephone-response-letter-

 

If you can log onto your MBNA account online change your contact numbers on there

 

If youve already sent the in disute letter I dont think you need to tell them again. Just go ahead and make a complaint to the ICO/OFT.

 

There's been a lot of discussion regarding the best method to flush out the original CCA, as it seems creditors think they can get away with supplying pretty much any garbage following a CCA request. Try requesting the original agreement that bears your signature with a SAR.

 

Itd be useful if you could scan in what they have sent you (make sure to hide your personal info!) so you can be sure whether or not they have complied.

 

Itd also be useful to know the date you made the original CCA request, the date they responded and how many months in arrears you are.

[seanj70]

thanks haggis

 

number changed online and SAR sent

 

here's what they sent me:

 

the covering letter: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/mbna_ltr.jpg

 

the CCA in someone else's name (5 parts)

1: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/someone_else_1_of_5.jpg

2: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/someone_else_2_of_5.jpg

3: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/someone_else_3_of_5.jpg

4: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/someone_else_4_of_5.jpg

5: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/someone_else_5_of_5.jpg

 

the CCA with my name & address on, but no signature (4 parts)

1: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/me_1_of_4.jpg

2: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/me_2_of_4.jpg

3: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/me_3_of_4.jpg

4: http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/me_4_of_4.jpg

 

these were sent together with a copy of a recent statement (which i haven't included but can if required, but it's a standard recent statement)

[gezwee]

Wouldnt wanna be their sols if they ever proceeded to court and you placed the CCA provided into evidence.

 

Who's to say this wasnt the only 'agreement' provided in their response

[haggis1984]

No probs Sean

 

Can you give the date you made the original CCA request, the date you recieved the CA and when did you took out this account?

 

What theyve sent you so far is exactly the same as what they sent me: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/204693-haggis-mbna-enforceable-agreement.html

 

Ive been told that although it wouldnt be enforceable in court it does satisfy a s78 request. As gezwee says though, whos to say the only 'agreement' they sent you wasnt the one in someone elses name?

 

If they have a signed agreement the SAR will flush it out. Make sure to send it recorded!

[seanj70]

CCA originally requested 23 june 09

These docs supplied on 27 aug 09

account opened around 2004 (well before 2006)

[haggis1984]

No!!!!! Just wrote you a massive reply then accidently deleted

 

Take 2:

 

Try a letter of complaint on the grounds that they were not entitled to enforce the agreement between 23/06 and 27/08, and as such should not have added charges/interest during this period.

 

Consequently:

 

The balance of the account is unlawfully inflated;

And sharing this innacurate balance with credit reference agencies is a breach of the Data Protection Act.

 

Then you can put a complaint into the Information Commisioners Office, and the Financial Ombudmans Service. I did this a couple of months back and am still waiting on replies from them.

 

(Im not 100% sure on this though as some have said that they believe Credit Agreements can be enforced retrospectively after a failure to satisfy a CA request)

[seanj70]

ok - update!

 

i sent a SAR to which they requested proof of ID so i sent driving license scan and have had nothing further on this. their 40 days were up on 7th November.

 

They have sent several letters however saying they what they supplied (the documents above) under my CCA request are acceptable and therefore they are quite within their rights to collect on the account!

apparently they don't have to supply a signed agreement to fulfil a CCA request.

 

i'm now about to send a letter saying 'i'm admitting no debt nor paying a thing until you supply a signed credit agreement' but does any one have any advice before i do?

[seanj70]

i'm also writing to the ICO and FOS

[dpick]

Hi if this so called agreement is for an account opened in 2004 I would be asking them how the agreement can contain charges limited to £12 which they introduced in June 2006 charges prior to this date were from £20 to £25 at least..

 

As normal a load of manure from MBNA.

 

dpick

[rebel11]

dpick,

 

Excellent find.

[seanj70]

nice find dpick! you must be bored reading thru all that on a sunday!!

 

anyway - here's what I intend sending them...

 

-----------------

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number: xxx

 

Account In Dispute

 

On 23rd June 2009 I made a formal request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s78. This request was made in writing and was delivered via recorded delivery to your offices on 24th June 2009.

 

 

The documents that you provided me included a credit agreement in another person's name and address.

On 27th September 2009 I made a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act in an attempt to acquire a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. This request was made in writing and was delivered via recorded delivery to your offices on 29th September 2009.

 

 

You had until 7th November 2009 to fulfil your obligation under the Data Protection Act and to date I have received nothing in response to my request.

I have now reported your actions to the Information Commissioner's Office and the Financial Ombudsmen Service and I have written to the third party who's credit agreement I was supplied.

 

 

Until you can provide me with a legible copy of a credit agreement that carries my name and address, and bears my signature, I do not accept liability for the alleged debt and I will be making no payments to the account.

Yours faithfully,

[dpick]

nice find dpick! you must be bored reading thru all that on a sunday!!

 

Nah I just HATE MBNA that much and of course I now know the tricks that these MBNA clowns get up to. They would say that a piece of blank paper is an enforceable agreement (you know we are a big American bank and we are the law.)

 

I would not go into to much detail with regard to why they have failed to comply to your CCA request just something along the lines of the documents supplied do not comply etc and hold back the reason why for a later date. Don't give them any more info than you have to at this time.

 

dpick

[seanj70]

i had already sent a (standard template) letter saying the what they had sent was wrong and they replied saying they they had fulfilled their requirement under the Cons. Credit Act etc...

 

i notice on your signature dpick that you state 'settled in full' on your MBNA account - they paid you or you had to pay them? or you had it written off?

 

what are the next steps for me if they fail to provide a signed agreement?

[ieuanMr]

Thanks for those links Haggis, they were great.

[dpick]

 

i notice on your signature dpick that you state 'settled in full' on your MBNA account - they paid you or you had to pay them? or you had it written off?

 

 

They firstly removed all charges and interest applied to the charges, then as a gesture of good will without admitting the account was unenforceable zeroised the account.

 

dpick

[seanj70]

ok - i finally got the full monty thru under a SAR!

 

it appears from their records that my account was opened in November 2006! I thought it was before that.

 

the 'signed' credit agreement is in the form of a checkbox and disclaimer saying this tick represents my signature!

 

i suppose that changes everything now?!

[supasnooper]

Have you chacked your statements to see what opening date appears on them ?

[ieuanMr]

You've won, if a tick box has not been ticked by you or you did not tell them to tick it then they have presented a non negotiable agreement and that can be deemed unfair. an Unfair relationship nulifies the contract and you can ask for it to be put aside in part or the whole of it cancelled by a judge. You need to look at the regulatons such as UTCCR 1999. It is available on the internet in PDF format.

 

The other regulations are the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and 2006.

 

Unfair Relationships; Enterprise Act 2002; OFT Guidance 854 May 2008,

 

Irresponsible Lending OFT Guidance 1107con July 2009

 

regards

 

ieuan

Edited November 29, 2009 by ieuanMr

[trigot33]

They firstly removed all charges and interest applied to the charges, then as a gesture of good will without admitting the account was unenforceable zeroised the account.

 

dpick

 

wow - very impressive.