HSBC loan agreement

[greatburdon]

Received the following in response to my CCA request :

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCloan1.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCloan2.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCloan3.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCagreement.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCterms.jpg

 

The agreement and the terms are extremely hard to read so I will be asking for copies that are legible. Can anyone advise on what can be seen whether this looks like an enforceable agreement?

 

I have not posted the schedule of payments, I made 51 payments, as it is self explanatory.

 

Many Thanks

greatburdon

[Pinky69]

I don't trust these non-professional looking agreements because they look as if they have been cut and pasted. There are prescribed terms on it but they need to be checked further. Anyway, they are illegible and if they cannot send a legible copy it would be unenforceable in court.

 

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible “

[greatburdon]

Would agree pinky that an illegible agreement should be deemed unenforceable but know first hand that some District Judges use their own discretion and do not adhere to the law.

 

Gb

[Pinky69]

They cannot use any discretion if they cannot read it. The agreement must be legible - that's the law - and if the copy is this bad, the original can only be bad too.

[greatburdon]

Do the banks actually keep the original paper document (if one existed) or are these copies taken off microfiche?

 

gb

[greatburdon]

Received the following in response to my request for a legible copy of the agreement:

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/Hsbcillegible.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/Hsbcillegible1.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/Hsbcillegible2.jpg

 

 

As this is not a legible copy of "my" signed agreement where do I go from here?

 

greatburdon

[greatburdon]

Received 'FINAL DEMAND' from HSBC regarding the agreement posted in post#1. Can anyone please advise whether it is enforceable?

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCfinaldem-1.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/HSBCfinaldem-cont.jpg

 

Thanks

Gb

[Pinky69]

Did they send yopu a Default Notice before demanding the full balance?

[greatburdon]

The only notices i have received are 'ARREARS NOTICE REQUIRED TO BE GIVEN UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974' which show just that i.e. the arrears.

 

I take it I dont ask them if they have sent a default notice?

 

What would be my response to their final demand?

 

Gb

[greatburdon]

**Bump**

[greatburdon]

Ooops..On re-checking my file I found the following default notice dated 2nd December 2009:

 

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/default.jpg

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt51/greatburdon/defaultcont.jpg

 

 

 

Can anyone please advise if I should respond to the latest final demand from HSBC.

 

Thanks

Gb

Edited January 17, 2010 by greatburdon
date

[greatburdon]

Any advice please?

[greatburdon]

**Any help would be appreciated**

[Pinky69]

Sorry I didn't get back to you - I have a stinking cold. Can you tell us what the date at the top of the DN is?

 

With regard to the agreement, what they have now sent you is a reconstructed copy. That is alright for a reply to a CCA request but that cannot be produced in court as an agreement. I would argue that the copy of the actual agreement is illegible and therefore unenforceable in court but it is your call whether you act on that advice.

[greatburdon]

Hi Pinky - The date is at the bottom of the DN and is 2nd December 2009 ... Sorry to hear you are snivellin' hope you feel better soon!

 

So, as far as the agreement goes is the only non-enforcement stance is the illegiblity? (in my post #6 -1st attachment- they clearly state that this is the only copy of my agreement they have), everything else would appear to be OK?

 

Gb

Edited January 17, 2010 by greatburdon

[Pinky69]

I wouldn't say the agreement is alright - you cannot read it. What, for example, is the charge for credit supposed to be? And did they send you any statements?

 

They have sent you an unlawful DN. If it is dated 2 December, they have only given you 14 days from the date on the Notice to remedy the alleged breach of agreement. They must by law -Consumer Credit(Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 and CCA 1974 - give you 14 days from the date of receipt. The date of receipt is deemed to be 2 days after they posted it if they posted it 1st class and 4 days after they posted it if posted 2nd class. Is the final demand for the full amount you owe them? If you are not sure then wait until they send you statements to check. If it is for the full amount then they have unlawfully rescinded the account - they cannot ask for the full balance without having issued a lawful DN - and all you would be due them would be any arrears due up to the date of termination ie the date of the final demand.

 

I think you have got to decide what you want to do about all of this. Get your statements first and see what is owed. Then you have to decide whether you are going to challenge the agreement on the grounds of being unenforceable because it is illegible. If you are going to pay them, then you have to find out how much is due up to termination and unlawful rescission and if the ball is in your court how much you are prepared to pay a month. You won't know whether or not the account has been rescinded until you get statements and don't mention it to them for now whatever you do.