Another RLP rip-off!

[Psyclist]

Hi guys,

 

Sorry to add to the pile but I'm another idiot who has self-inflicted upon myself a relationship with RLP.

 

I was in B&Q last weekend getting some stuff because I'm fitting a new bathroom, and when I was trying to work out which drill bit I need, I noticed there was a bit just lying on the shelf out of it's packaging, so I decided I would be really clever and cunning and just sneak it out.

 

I was promptly collared just after going through the checkouts and marched into the security guys little room and busted. He told me he'd seen me acting suspisciously and had since found the empty packet on the rack. Turned out the bit would have cost £7.80 or something like that.

 

He made me sign a letter to tell me that I'm now banned from all B&Q stores, and that they will notify RLP of what has happened and called the police.

 

When the police arrived, I discussed it with the officer who did a check, found out I'm not a regular criminal and understood my reasons even though I don't excuse what I did, and he went and spoke to the manager of the store who agreed to take it no further if I returned the drill bit and paid £20 as the item was now unsellable (which it was anyway, but nevermind) and I would be released without caution.

 

I was very ashamed and apologetic, paid the £20 and thanked them for being so lenient and left thinking I had been lucky to get away so lightly and planned on writing them a letter to apologise again and ask if they would reconsider my ban as I work in construction and spend a large amount of money on a yearly basis in B&Q stores and it would be better for both of us if I was allowed to continue shopping there.

 

I am yet to put my apology in writing and have since received a letter from Retail Loss Prevention outlining that regarding the events of the aforementioned day, I now have to pay them £80. I'm not at home so can't give you the exact details this minute but will update as soon as I can.

 

My main concern is that for a £7.80 drill bit, £80 seems awfully inappropriate. They have given me 21 days in which to pay, but they have broken it down into investigation charges, store security charges, and something else, but as far as I'm aware, the store security exists whether or not I enter the premesis, and £80 is simply not a reasonable cost of covering the potential loss of an £8 drill bit. I think they said £50 was investigation costs, even though I was busted and confessed within about 2mins of being collared by the security guy. What exactly has been investigated?

 

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm sitting on my high horse because I am genuinely ashamed of what I did for the sake of £8, and while I'm grateful for the way it was handled at the time, I simply can't accept that paying £100 out for the "attempted" theft of a £8 drill bit.

 

Like I say, I'll give further details as soon as I can, but can anyone give me any advice other than not to steal?

 

Cheers guys, appreciate you taking the time to read this.

 

Kris

[eyeinthesky]

Hi, did the manager give you a receipt for the £20 you paid? I hope you got the police officer's details! I am thinking that demanding more than the value of the item may be illegal at store level? Anyone know if this correct? In any case, you have already paid a penalty to the store, so they can't reasonably demand any more via rlp. Perhaps you should write to rlp and explain this, with a copy of your receipt if you have one. I feel sure that this would be considered summary justice, and would negate any further action via rlp.

[Psyclist]

Hi and thanks for responding.

 

The £20 I paid in the store for the item was agreed under what is called a "Community Resolution", basically what they do is if they regard it as a minor offence and deem it appropriate, they give you the opportunity to make a good-will gesture to recompense for the offence. When the officer first suggested this to the manager, the manager said that he wanted me to clear all the litter from the car park, which in my defence the officer said he didn't think was appropriate or practical since I live almost an hour away from the store, so the store manager agreed if I paid £20 for the item, that would be that.

 

They wouldn't give me the receipt as they put the sale through with an item costing £19.99 which the member of staff said they had to keep which I wasn't impressed about, however the policeman signed my Community Resolution form to say that I did as agreed.

 

The notice of intended civil recovery issued to me by the security officer reads thus:

 

"You have been detained in B&Q (insert store) upon our reasonable belief that you have acquired property or cash or by your wrongful actions caused loss to this company to the value of £7.88.

 

This notice informs you that we will seek compensation from you by Civil Recovery for the financial losses we have suffered from your wrongful act. These losses may include but are not limited to:-

~ The value of the property or cash

~ The cost to restore the goods for sale if recovered and not damaged

~ The cost of your detention

~ The costs of the investigation in to the offence

~ A proportion of security costs, surveillance and loss prevention measures at the store to prevent such thefts.

 

CIVIL RECOVERY IS NOT A FINE AND IS ENTIRELY SEPARATE FROM ANY CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS THAT MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU BY THE PROSECUTING AUTHORITIES.

 

IT HAS NO INFLUENCE ON ANY DECISION TO PROSECUTE YOU OR ANY PENALTY SUBSEQUENTLY IMPOSED UPON YOU BY A CRIMINAL COURT.

 

STORE STAFF HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DROP CRIMINAL CHARGES OR AVOID REFERRING THIS CASE TO THE POLICE IN RETURN FOR PAYMENT OF CIVIL RECOVERY.

 

You are also notified that the personal information we hold may be passed to the police and to Retail Loss Prevention for criminal and civil proceedings against you and may also be used, in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998, to prevent crime and detect offenders including verifying details on application forms.

 

You will be notified separately by Retail Loss Prevention Limited, the company acting on our behalf, of the amount of compensation required and how to pay.

 

IN YOUR OWN INTERESTS YOU ARE ADVISED TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.

 

IF YOU NEED TO DISCUSS YOUR CASE OR REQUIRE FURTHER INFORMATION, CONTACT:

 

RETAIL LOSS PREVENTION LIMITED, PO BOX 5413, NOTTINGHAM NG7 2BJ TELEPHONE 0115 970 3525."

 

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The Community Resolution form states:

 

[Following personal and offence details]

 

The victim has intimated that he/she is willing to have this matter dealt with informally (or police believe it appropriate) and provide you an opportunity to make recompense for your actions. This is voluntary and if you agree and complete the process you will not be subject to any further police investigation. Failure to complete the agreed actions may result in the matter being formally investigated and you being liable to prosecution.

 

Officer to record any response made by the subject...[none given]

 

Suspect to sign after last word. Appropriate adult to countersign if applicable.

 

Agreed coure of action: Return drill to B&Q. Pay £20 to B&Q (Drill value £7.88)

 

Declaration; 'I accept responsibility for my involvement in this offence and agree to participate in the resolution as outlined within this document. I have been made aware that all informationis available to chief officers and may be disclosed under Criminal Records Bureau 'enhanced disclosure' process'

 

Suspect signature...

Officer signature...

Officer's details...

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I then received the letter from RLP which reads thus:

 

"We act on behalf of B&Q. We are instructed that on September 13 2009 at our client's premesis in (insert store) you committed a wrongful act casuing loss to our client.

 

You wrongful interference with our client's goods or their right to payment for services means that you will be deemed to have entered our client's premesis as a trespasser. Your wrongful actions entitle our client to pursue a civil claim against you for damages to cover their losses from this incident; these losses are as follows:

 

1.Value of un-recovered (or unfit for resale) goods/monies/services:- £0.00

2.Staff/Management time investigating and/or dealing with incident:- £52.50

3.Administration costs resulting from your wrongful actions:- £15.75

4.Apportioned security & surveillance costs:- £19.25

TOTAL:- £87.50

 

You are advised that this matter is in relation to civil proceedings only and is entirely separate from any police action or criminal proceedings for this incident.

 

Although our client's claim is for £87.50 on an entirely "without prejudice" basis our client would be prepared to accept £70.00 in full and final settlement of this civil claim against you, provided that payment is made in full within 21 days.

 

Failure to respond within 21 days from the date of this letter will result in further action being taken against you for the full un-discounted value of the claim. Further action can be avoided by making immediate payment by telephone on 0870-167-2181, or by any of the other methods stated on the accompanying sheet.

 

Yours sincerely

 

J Moorhouse

Retail Loss Prevention Limited"

 

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I know that's a lot of info but I thought it better to put as much as possible to see if anyone can suggest anything.

 

I can't help but think I'm being forced to compensate them again when I've already been forced to compensate them by the acting police officer (who's details I do have if necessary).

 

I hope someone can advise me on what to do as I can't see how this is a fair and reasonable punishment for nicking a £7.88 drill bit.

 

Thanks again guys, it really is appreciated.

 

Kris

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry, Kris, this is going to sound really harsh, but you decided to steal.

 

You made your post about this 24 hours ago, and 60 caggers have looked at this thread...... and not responded, because there is no response which could support what you did.

 

You're saying you regret it now, but would you feel the same if you hadn't been caught?

 

There is another thread about RLP where a teenager's friend took a lipgloss because he thought she wanted it. That is the kind of situation which will get help and support (and did), but you admitted that you deliberately chose to steal the drill bit. Why do you think you should get any support and sympathy here?

 

You got caught. You don't like the fine. As you say, it was only £7.88. Now it's likely to cost you £100. Please don't do it again.

[Psyclist]

I accept what you're saying, however it seems you're saying it's acceptable to steal on behalf of other people but it's not acceptable to make a mistake. I like to think I would have felt guilt had I not been caught as I'm not a habitual thief.

 

I have read other messages on here and wouldn't have posted if I didn't think that there were people on here who understand that people do stupid things as has been acknowledged in other threads. The example you give also makes clear that the offender also made a clear decision to steal the lipgloss, just for somebody else.

 

I'm only asking for help. If everybody else reckons I'm a hopeless thief who doesn't deserve help, then I'm sorry I've wasted your time and space. With or without your help, I can guarantee I won't be repeating my actions.

[Desperate Daniella]

I didn't say it was acceptable to steal on behalf of someone else. The poster in the lipgloss situation was the mother of the girl whose friend had chosen to steal the lipgloss. Stupid of him, and not at all acceptable.

 

There is another thread which we have all supported about a new mum being in a dither and walking out of a store with baby clothes.

 

I'm sure you won't do it again, and I'm sure you are not a "hopeless thief". but if being caught this time has made you never, ever, consider doing such a thing again, then it's not all bad.

 

Kris, you got caught, hold your hand up and pay the fine, and get on with your life, and put it behind you.

 

Really, I wish you all the best,

 

DD

[Button1]

Hi Psyclist,

 

I've not been a member on this forum for long but I believe that most people that come on here won't judge you. Some mightn't agree with what you've done - I don't condone theft but see what you did as perhaps opportunist? "A drill bit out of the packaging......they won't be able to sell it anyway.........what's the harm??" Is this right?? If you'd taken it to customer services you might even have been able to buy it for a fraction of the price as it would possibly have gone in the reduced bucket but......hindsight......you know the rest!

 

Have you considered going back to B&Q and asking to speak with the manager to see if they will stop the action against you? You have paid your fine to B&Q, so why should you be subject to a further fine?? The disclosure you signed stated -

 

"I have been made aware that all informationis available to chief officers and may be disclosed under Criminal Records Bureau 'enhanced disclosure' process"

 

....surely this would be enough of a punishment to deter you from stealing again, and therefore it is unnecessary to be subject to RLP and their unfair and unlawfull charges......not forgetting their haphazzard use of peoples data!!

[Button1]

I think it also comes down to can you cope with numerous threatening letters from RLP?? (I wasn't too good with the coping part but everyone is different).

 

You'll probably get 3.....each one 21 days apart......each threatening court action.

 

If you won't lose any sleep then just ignore them. They won't take you to court over £80 odd quid......it'll get passed onto a debt collector who will take over from where RLP's letters left off.

 

I can't say what will happen from there on, but hopefully some of the more experienced members will come on and give you some advice.

 

Best of luck

 

Button

[ahibi]

D.Daniella you are completely wrong in saying what you do. Do you think it OK that either B&Q and/or RLP act as judge and jury in this matter? They have no right whatsoever to pluck a figure from mid-air and try and say that it pays B&Q´s costs, utter and complete rubbish, RLP are in business for one purpose and that is to make profits for themselves and a bit of extra bunce for the supposedly aggrieved retailer. Stealing is not right under any circumstances but neither is the imposition of these so-called civil penalties which do not reflect the actual costs of the incident to the retailer involved.

[2Grumpy]

Kris, you got caught, hold your hand up and pay the fine, and get on with your life, and put it behind you.

 

 

Whilst saying nothing to condone the original actions, only the criminal justice system has the power to find guilty & fine.

 

RLP is trying to recover its costs. I can't see any costs to RLP other than writing to demand money, because it wasn't involved. Security staff hired by B&Q were. I am sure that RLP don't give a refund to B&Q if the guards that they hire catch someone.

 

They haven't justified their costs. However the OP paid £20 for an £8 drill.

 

Something isn't quite right

[suchaworry]

Hi, New here and waiting for my post about my child to be checked by moderators. Similar situation with RLP, however, for me the most worrying fact is...they keep your data for six years and share with other interested parties. Possibly stopping people from gaining employment. My child is 16, someone else took the goods. Both got what appears like a judgement without court. Psyclist, you got off lucky my child's fine is £172 and also a penalty notice of £80 as an accessory. Despite having no prior knowledge that the other child was going to steal. It is a dreadful nightmare.One minute of irrational thinking and a six year punishment for the offender and anyone with them. Harsh....

[labrat]

psyclist

 

check the retail loss prevention FAQ

 

 

8. I paid the full price for all the goods or services, why should I pay once more?

 

If you believe that you paid the full value of the goods in question then please write in with a detailed letter of explanation of your version of events, providing copies of the receipts, in order that this matter can be investigated.

 

 

in other words write in that you have not only paid for the goods but have also paid extra as compensation to the store and are not expected to pay two lots of compensation to the same store, the level of compensation does not matter as this has been pre-arranged with the store.

 

suchaworry, write in that your child was not involved in the theft and simply entered the store with the theif, point out that if they pass on any details of shoplifting then they are breaching the data protection act by passing on false data, under this act you are entiled to a copy of any data held and to correct that information if false

[suchaworry]

Thanks Labrat,

 

unfortunately as it is a civil offence that RLP are pursuing the burden of proof is not the same is it? They have decided that being in Wilkinsons is trespass and an intention of their wrongdoing, They claim that they have every right to accuse as they see fit, regardless of what the police do. In this case as the 2 children arrived to the store together and left together they are both guilty. I received no paperwork from Wilkinsons either.

 

RPL work for them, is this data sharing? Also they will not divulge any information to me without a signed letter from my 16 year old child. Bet they would accept my money though, if I wanted to pay!

[JonCris]

suchaworry Are they claiming such powers in writing? if so PM me please

[eyeinthesky]

Thanks Labrat,

 

unfortunately as it is a civil offence that RLP are pursuing the burden of proof is not the same is it? They have decided that being in Wilkinsons is trespass and an intention of their wrongdoing, They claim that they have every right to accuse as they see fit, regardless of what the police do. In this case as the 2 children arrived to the store together and left together they are both guilty. I received no paperwork from Wilkinsons either.

 

RPL work for them, is this data sharing? Also they will not divulge any information to me without a signed letter from my 16 year old child. Bet they would accept my money though, if I wanted to pay!

 

I don't mean to pile on the misery, but the trespass bit could only apply if your teen was already banned. Perhaps you could ask him/her about this. The police have issued a PND (£80 penalty), so they must have been satisfied that both played a part in the theft. If your child did not assist in any way, then you have the option to not pay the PND, and he/she can have their day in court. It will then be up to the Crown Prosecution Service to prove guilt.

[suchaworry]

Eye in the sky,

my teen is not already banned. This was the first shopping trip in about four years without me. In fact the security guards statement is very vague. He does not state who had the item. The other parent is paying the fine, the other child has been referred to the youth offending team.The ticket states it was issued on the street, when in fact it was issued within the police station. I was not contacted to collect my child the other parent was. I have been told they were arrested then that they were not. The whole thing has been grossly mismanaged.

 

JonCris, the conversation was over the phone with RLP although the letter states that civil proceedings are completely separate from police action or criminal proceedings.

 

thanks for your comments anyway. suchaworry

[Button1]

...

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[Button1]

suchaworry Are they claiming such powers in writing? if so PM me please

 

suchaworry, if you read your childs first letter from RLP, this should refer to him/her as a trespasser? Second paragraph?

[Desperate Daniella]

Suchaworry,

 

Honestly if it were my child, and I believed what they said about the whole episode I would not sign any letter and I would tell them to go to court. If you sign the letter and pay the fine you are more or less admitting your child's guilt.

 

I hope this works out for you both.

 

DDxx

[shanty]

eyeinthesky, all RLP's first letters state "you will be deemed to have entered our client's premises as a trespasser".

 

This was in my letter, and I was NOT already banned.

 

 

There is a train of thought that says that If you enter a retail premesis with the intention to steal,you are entering as a trespasser, as the premesis only invite legitimate customers in.As this doesn't seem to fit in your case, ( you didn't enter with the sole intention of stealing)it does not seem appropriate anyway.I don't know about the legality of that but it seems feasable in other cases.

Edited October 7, 2009 by shanty

[Pajeroone]

hello

 

Just wondering how you got on with your case with RLP?

 

My daughter was accused of stealing a £7 CD from a local Tescos branch, the police were not called / involved. then she had a letter from RLP giving her 21 days to pay £70, shes done nothing about it, shes not wrote to them at all, now shes had the next letter, saying the costs have now gone up to £87.50, as the 21 days have expired, they are now giving her 14 days to pay, what they say is

 

"Our client is determined to make full use of civil law remedies including court action if neccessary to recover their costs by your wrongfull actions. Where proceedings are issued then the court will be asked to consider any failure to respond to letters where they make orders fr costs and interests. To avoid this action and further increased costs you must deal with this claim within 14 days from the date of this letter" they also say if she cannot pay she must call to set up an instalment plan.

 

What really annohs me though s at the bottom of the letter is says

 

"Information regarding your wrongfull act wil be held on a nationl databse of civil recovery incidents, This information is available to prospective employers wthin client companies, with a legitimate interest to screen an individauls integraty in relation to employment decisions. This information is held within a closed user group in accordance with the privisions of the data potection act 1998. for a period not exeeding 6 years. access to this information may be available to the claiment, the courts, legal advisors, crime partnerships, and the police"

 

so what should she do now? yesterday i sent them an e mail saying contact her and i gave them my home tel no but they have not rang, she wants to hand it over to me now as i can see its worryng her a lot now. she is on JSA at the moment but is lookin for apprenticeships and work, so that piece at the bottom of the letter isworrying her,

 

I do feel like going to Nottingham and seeing RLP about this and talking to them face to face, but I bet its like fort knox with security staff everywhere when you get there!!

 

Any advice appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Keith

Edited February 9, 2010 by Pajeroone

[Pajeroone]

just had this e mail from them too :

 

If you would like us to contact you regarding your case then we require at least 48 hours notice to do this. Alternatively you could contact our Collections Department on 0870 167 2181.

If you want to contact us to dispute the case then this needs to be done in writing.

The address we are writing to you at is the address you provided at the incident and was subsequently confirmed by the Police.

Without further contact from you this case will continue.

Yours sincerely

[labrat]

just found the address again:

 

RETAIL LOSS PREVENTION LIMITED

C/O ACTONS SOLICITORS

16 REGENT STREET

NOTTINGHAM

NG1 5BQ

 

so i doubt its like fort knox probably a dingy little office

[ScarletPimpernel]

I've looked at RLP's actual office on Google StreetView. It looks like a house that's been converted. Nothing special at all.

[ForestChav]

I've looked at RLP's actual office on Google StreetView. It looks like a house that's been converted. Nothing special at all.

Most of the area around the Playhouse/Cathedral is old Georgian houses for medical practices, solicitors etc.