OPC - Ingress Park

[lihi]

I certainly hope I don't end up in front of this magistrate. A magistrate who doesn't know that under contract law the private parking company can only take legal action to recover costs. >>Sigh

 

1 letter = £2.00 (is this being generous? It does include the ink)

1 stamp = £0.34p

 

Have I forgotten anything?

 

If this really is a genuine view of a magistrate then it's no wonder us mere mortals have no faith in the british justice system.

 

Ingressresident isn't a troll just an irritating local (doesn't)know-it-all resident! Sorry Ingress but I find your views extremely boring now and I wish you would go and hijack someone elses thread or start your own. We don't agree with PPC charges and the law is on our side, you do support PPC charges - STALE MATE.

[lihi]

Unfortunately.....if you checked your facts - you would know that the law of the land states that the RK is ultimately responsible for all fines unless he can prove otherwise - and being away on business/someone else driving your car doesn't exhonerate you - you just have to nominate them to pay it. The only time you would not be held responsible is if you have reported your car stolen!

 

See this would be correct if we would were talking about PPN (Parking Penalty Notices) but we're talking about PPC (Private Parking Company) Charges.

 

It falls under contract law, I would be interested in knowing exactly what point of law you are referring to.

[lihi]

My boyfriend parked outside my house in Ingress Park at about 5.10am, the sign states that any vehicle parked within a VP bay between the hours of 3am and 5am will receive a ticket. He was not parked in a VP bay, he was parked just opposite my house and not blocking any roadway. He received a ticket at 5.17am which is clearly outside of the stated hours. When he called the OPC they said that as he was not in a VP bay he is subject to a ticket and has to pay this. Please clarify if this means that he can not park anywhere on the development unless within VP bay with a permit??

 

I can understand it between the hours of 3 and 5 as stated but is it reasonable to issue and demand payment for tickets outside of this time which goes against what the signs say?

 

I am pretty sure that the sign does not state that and wish to know whether he is able to contest this. Please help as the fine is due by Wednesday 22nd October.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Hi Jo

 

Private Parking Companies invoicing schemes are completely different to the PPN (parking penalty notices) issued by your council traffic wardens.

 

The Private Parking Companies operate under contract law, contract law states that the Private Parking Companies can only take legal action to recoup their losses. For the letter, envelope and stamp it equates to a few pounds but personally I wouldn't even pay them that.

 

It's up to you if you want to pay them but you are not bound to by law, regardless of the signs displayed around the estate. It won't stop them selling the 'debt' on to debt collection agents but just ignore them to. If you don't want to pay, then don't. You've found the site and therefore if you receive anything that worrys you feel free to post back on the site for advice on what to do next.

[kiptower]

read your own words

 

QUOTE

 

you would know that the law of the land states that the RK is ultimately responsible for all fines unless he can prove otherwise

 

 

THAT does not in LAW cover PRIVATE PARKING INVOICES

NOR can they call them a FINE or PENALTY

 

Companies that issue these INVOICES CANNOT issue a FINE / PENALTY only a COURT or GOVERMENT BODY ( in which case when its a Gov Body its normally a PENALTY E.G, THE POLICE, LOCAL COUNCIL )

 

and these ONLY APPLY when the road / area ( COUNCIL CAR PARK etc ) is maintained from PUBLIC FUNDS, and is subject to an Road Traffic Order

[lamma]

Only judicial process can issue fines. The police and councils just issue notices.

[pin1onu]

Unfortunately.....if you checked your facts - you would know that the law of the land states that the RK is ultimately responsible for all fines unless he can prove otherwise - and being away on business/someone else driving your car doesn't exhonerate you - you just have to nominate them to pay it. The only time you would not be held responsible is if you have reported your car stolen!

:D:D:D:DThank you for a great bit of a comedy. I've had a really crap day and your post has just made me smile big time.

 

I suggest you look at the case law concerning penalties in contract (Dunlop 1915) and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Act 1977. Next you need to look up what a fine is and who can issue one. Then look up the laws on privity of contract.

 

Next look up the Traffic Management Act 2004 or The Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 and tell us how the laws contained with concerning the parking on the public highway and/or public land apply on a private estate.

 

Finally look up the meaning of the word Troll and or "clueless muppet" and see how it relates to you and your posts.

[fedupwithopc]

There is a website for ingress park residents where you can add comments about whatever is on your mind. It mainly appears to be about parking!

www.ingressparkcommunity.com

[the_freedom_trail]

The residents of Ingress Park are being done a double dis-service. Not only are the residents being ticketed, there is no practical means of managing parking. OPC and their like don't manage car parks/parking - they are merely oportunists.

 

Regards,

 

TFT

[Jeevesikins]

Hello there, after several months of relative peace on the OPC ticketing front - they've upped the stakes and this morning I found two A4 yellow stickers with the following plastered on my windscreen and driver's side window:

 

"Notice of intention to keeper

Removal of persistent offending vehicle from private land.

 

Should the vehicle to which this notice is attached, registration mark **** ***, be found parked at any time from 18/02/10; within the parking area known as Ingress Park, Greenhithe, Kent and parked in a manner as to warrant a further parking ticket being issued, such vehicle will be removed by OPC, due to numerous parking tickets being issued, to a secure lock up and sold to defray expenses should it not be claimed within 14 days. For further information, please contact our offices using the contact details below.

Notes: A vehicle is defined under Section 99(5) of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 as meaning any vehicle, whether or not it is in a fit state for use on roads, and as including any chassis or body with or without wheels, appearing to have formed part of such vehicle, and load carried by and anything attached to such a vehicle."

 

Also, my wife was at home tody and signed for a letter from OPC saying I had 15 unpaid parking tickets and owed £1300 and again asking for me to cough up.

Is this more scare tactics? I don't want to gloat but I can't imagine a tow truck being able to get into our underground car park - but still, can they take away my car? I am hoping the answer is a big resounding No...

[letshelp]

Should the vehicle to which this notice is attached, registration mark **** ***, be found parked at any time from 18/02/10; within the parking area known as Ingress Park, Greenhithe, Kent and parked in a manner as to warrant a further parking ticket being issued, such vehicle will be removed by OPC, due to numerous parking tickets being issued,

 

I would suggest that they are NOT allowed to take your vehicle over an ALLEGED debt. I believe it would be unlawful to secure your vehicle against unpaid begging invoices.

 

to a secure lock up and sold to defray expenses should it not be claimed within 14 days. For further information, please contact our offices using the contact details below.

 

Don't contact them.

 

Notes: A vehicle is defined under Section 99(5) of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 as meaning any vehicle, whether or not it is in a fit state for use on roads, and as including any chassis or body with or without wheels, appearing to have formed part of such vehicle, and load carried by and anything attached to such a vehicle."

 

Absolutely nothing to do with a Private Parking Company. Seems they are trying to give themselves an air of legality, but failing miserably.

 

Also, my wife was at home tody and signed for a letter from OPC saying I had 15 unpaid parking tickets and owed £1300 and again asking for me to cough up.

 

£1,300 impressive. You have certainly cost them a lot of lost money. Hold tight.

 

Is this more scare tactics?

 

Yes

 

I don't want to gloat but I can't imagine a tow truck being able to get into our underground car park

 

I wont either then:lol::lol:

 

- but still, can they take away my car?

 

No

 

I am hoping the answer is a big resounding No...

regards

[jkdd77]

Legally, the answer is of course no.

 

There is a risk they will simply do it anyway, knowing that the police will refuse to get involved, and knowing that you will then have no choice but to pay the unlawful ransom demand.

 

It is unlawful to clamp over alleged past debts, but that has never stopped cowboy clampers from repeatedly doing so, and doing so with full police support for their extortion by way of the threat of arrest for criminal damage if the clamp is cut off.

 

Hello there, after several months of relative peace on the OPC ticketing front - they've upped the stakes and this morning I found two A4 yellow stickers with the following plastered on my windscreen and driver's side window:

 

"Notice of intention to keeper

Removal of persistent offending vehicle from private land.

 

Should the vehicle to which this notice is attached, registration mark **** ***, be found parked at any time from 18/02/10; within the parking area known as Ingress Park, Greenhithe, Kent and parked in a manner as to warrant a further parking ticket being issued, such vehicle will be removed by OPC, due to numerous parking tickets being issued, to a secure lock up and sold to defray expenses should it not be claimed within 14 days. For further information, please contact our offices using the contact details below.

Notes: A vehicle is defined under Section 99(5) of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 as meaning any vehicle, whether or not it is in a fit state for use on roads, and as including any chassis or body with or without wheels, appearing to have formed part of such vehicle, and load carried by and anything attached to such a vehicle."

 

Also, my wife was at home tody and signed for a letter from OPC saying I had 15 unpaid parking tickets and owed £1300 and again asking for me to cough up.

Is this more scare tactics? I don't want to gloat but I can't imagine a tow truck being able to get into our underground car park - but still, can they take away my car? I am hoping the answer is a big resounding No...

[lamma]

Police. No legal authority to distrain the vehicle so threat of an illegal act. demanding money with menaces - extortion (a grave crime). blackmail. You would have to talk your way to an inspector, the person manning the desk won't have a clue or be bothered.

[lihi]

jkdd is right, they have no legal right but they will try to anyway.

 

It's all well and good ignoring them but it's jeeves car they would attempt to take away. What points of law can Jeeves cross reference this against?

 

The cretins have started ticketing our estate, we've not got one yet but as many 2 car families are using the visitor bays there's no place for our visitors to park evening and weekends so I'm completely isolated. We have 1 car, I can't go back to work because I have to have a car for my type of work and no one will visit us because it's too much agro and they don't want to risk getting tickets. I'm spitting blood at the moment but luckily someone else on the estate is fighting it on our behalf tooth and nail, shame about the residents association who are some what quiet and useless. We will have to move again, we're happy and settled but have no choice unless we spend the forseeable future struggling on one salary.

 

Jeeves are you able to round up anti parking people on your estate, the lib dem rep is helping us fight them, I can put him in touch with you as well to support the parking on ingress.

 

Any one have any ideas where the best place is to do research on this?

[pin1onu]

I don't condone illegal acts. However that said if a person or persons unknown grind off the clamp, then you can put your hands up and say not me guv if the plod come calling.

 

BTW if it's done in the dark with someone wearing a hoodie, gloves and a mask, identity is going to be hard to prove.

 

In terms of a legal solution I would contact OPC and advise them that you do not give them permission or consent to clamp your vehicle. You might want to point out that clamping for debt is illegal and that you would seek damages against them and the property management company as well as lodging a criminal complaint against them.

 

If you want to get a full understanding of your legal position have a read of the clamping guide. There is an appendix concerning residential parking. While it is written from the perspective of being clamped the solutions suggested in it may help.

[Jeevesikins]

Thanks for all your help and advice (always excellent!), I am awaiting OPC's next move tomorrow morning...

 

I don't particularly want to contact OPC after everyone's advice to ignore them and mark myself out as a "live" fish. I will sit on it and see what happens. If they do end up taking my car, I am suitable outraged enough to hire a lawyer and get them stitched up once and for all. I understand I may be down a car in the process...but it may be worth it in the long run if they get burned in court properly.

 

I read the clamping guide and it has helped, because there are certainly no signs to indicate that there clamping enforcement is around. And as I haven't agreed to any parking restrictions, I think I am legally in a good position.

[mylo-ingress]

Good luck to everyone already contesting OPC's despicable charges! I moved into a new build in Ingress Park in November, 2009. As seems common practice by the mangement company they neglected to inform us that there were parking permits and it was only after my visitor had a parking ticket slapped on his car that we became aware of the scheme..

 

At our end of the development there are no OPC signs, he was in fact parked under a Central Ticketing sign which makes no mention of parking permits or restricted time for visitors parking. The OPC ticket states that we breeched the restrictions outlined on the nearest sign!! We have had a few letters back and forth and will be happy to pursue the case in court. It was very interesting to hear the bullying tactics they resort to and we will definitely ignore any threats and fraudlent charges they try to make.

 

We have already complained to British Parking Association as the regulations are not clear; there appear to be two private companies operating and two sets of restrictions. How are visitors expected to know which to follow? FYI Martin Lewis has some advice on dealing with these cowboy operators on Private Parking Tickets: Tickets are often invalid, don't pay.....

 

I'm not going to let OPC put me off Ingress Park, i love my new home and the development, its a shame that the residents comittee decided to employ such a disreputable private parking agency but i doubt any operate any better. I imagine most residents behind the scheme are those with plenty of their own parking spaces, I'm surprised that the developers have not allocated more - almost every family is a two car family these days. It does make you wonder who is making money here!

[kiptower]

first you may well find that its actually someone from the "residents committee" putting the tickets on the cars, push for an answer if they are doing this

 

challenge the residents committee of their right to employ the cowboys without the actual residents consent , and also the cowboys will often offer £10 back per actual ticket they collect on, you have the right to ask how much they have received and where did the money go etc, and when did they consult "ALL THE RESIDENTS" and what was the response / vote results, without the consultation they cannot use the cowboys in the first place, also whats in your lease etc re PARKING

 

but then again the real advice is to IGNORE

[Jeevesikins]

Received about four letters from Wyndsor-Smythe and Partners today for the first time. Feel touched they waited so long...I wonder why they wait so long? Surely the costs of these mailshots aren't that cost-effective after a while?

 

Anyway, I used the freepost reply envelopes to send them four notes telling them how I believed they weren't real lawyers, would hopefully lose their current employment and get decent jobs, and that I believed nobody would ever pay them. Probably a little childish, but made me feel slightly better.

[crem]

Anyway, I used the freepost reply envelopes to send them four notes telling them how I believed they weren't real lawyers, would hopefully lose their current employment and get decent jobs, and that I believed nobody would ever pay them. Probably a little childish, but made me feel slightly better.

 

Nothing wrong with a little childish indulgence at times like this. I like the fact you had to use all 4 FREEPOST envelopes to get your message across.

[mickeyJ]

Hello Fellow haters of all things cowboy. i too today received my first letter from Windsor-Smythe & Partners, some 6 months after first contact, demanding i pay the outstanding balance or die! i had to laugh. Has any one else from ingress park noticed that 95 % of all spare spaces are VP bays, also has any one noticed that most households have two cars and one garage (If at all)? It almost feels like ur being bent over a barrel.

 

I signed a petition back in 2007 where 90 % of the residents stated that they were discusted with the private companies, and later found out that the 'residents' committee was made up of Shareholders, shareholders, shareholders, 1 council official and about 2 residents. Hardly a fair representation.

 

Could i suggest that If any of us ingress parkers get as far as being summonsed to court, that we back each other up and go as a group for support. I think there's a fair few of us in the same boat, and i for one am not going to be bullied by pillar to post by a bunch of cowboys demanding I just 'give them money'

 

Does any one have any suggestions as to what i should do next? I took a photo on the morning i found the ticket showing the lack of a sighn in the bays near my house, and will use this photo if they claim there was signage covering the bays. The signs that are up, you have to physically walk right up to them, with a step ladder and stick ur nose up against it to make out the words. I never signed anything that said i had to walk around the park looking for signage!

[Dublindel]

As this is widespread, suggest you get a solicitor to out the committee, and help you do a spring clean id they are getting a kick back then it could possibly be criminal

[Jeevesikins]

After I explained my use of Windsor-Smythe's (OPC's) freepost envelopes to my wife, she thought she would indulge in some OPC-baiting too using their handy envelopes...

Edited March 22, 2010 by Jeevesikins

[GuidoT]

Just be careful, I have known OPC to tow a car, then you contact the police to tell them and they say it is a civil matter and you get no where.

 

Unsatisfactory I know and in the meantime you are left without your car.

[GuidoT]

After I explained my use of Windsor-Smythe's (OPC's) freepost envelopes to my wife, she thought she would indulge in some OPC-baiting too using their handy envelopes...

 

This kind of stuff does not do you any favours if they litigate (which they do) they link it to you and get it before a judge.

Edited March 23, 2010 by GuidoT

[Jeevesikins]

Well if they plan to tow my car, they will do it with or without us sending them anything.

 

I suppose we will have to not send the letters as planned if there is even a small chance they might use it against us. I don't want them to be able to lay a finger on us.