Asda-drydens Solicitors-notice Of Intended Civil Recovery

[Button1]

Hi JonCris,

 

I'm pleased to see you back on this forum and hope you are well!

 

Yes, I will still continue to support victims of RLP - the members of this forum, including yourself, provided me with a huge wealth of support, and I will not forget their kindness.

 

I remember reading somewhere on here from a so called RLP employee, that this forum is not a threat to RLP............aparently they just view it as some kind of "self help group" for their victims!

 

Oh, how wrong they are! What kind of information are you looking to provide to the governing body you have arranged a meeting with?

 

I think my case would be a good one for numerous reasons, not forgetting RLP's blackmail letters, ie their first letter claiming £22.74....then due to an "administration error on their behalf", jumped to £90.99........could there have been another "administration error" in the pipeline???....what is their favourite amount again??........£135 or something or other??........

 

If anything, RLP has taught me a lesson and that is to stand up for myself and not give into bullies....so thanks RLP for that "self help" counselling......that would have probably cost a fortune had I sought professional help!!:D:D

[Button1]

Snap Sugar Plum Fairy! Two minds thinking alike! :D:D

[JonCris]

Sugar AND Button I realize it's a pain in the butt but could you send me copies of all correspondence .............again .........that is unless S or R already has it;)

[Billybumpkins]

Billybumpkins - Please spare a thought (whether you are a parent or not) of the innocent and vulnerable children and adults on this forum that haven't committed a crime, haven't stolen, haven't incurred a loss to a company but have been subjected to all the goings on relating to untrained security staff, loss prevention staff that haven't a clue, RLP plus their numerous debt collection agencies and threats that come with it.

 

I'm with you Button!

 

Joncris - Count me in on your meeting

 

 

Hi Sugar Plum Fairy,

You hit the nail on the head. Now without incurring the wrath of those before, when I mentioned a loss prevention professional, I am talking about people who are highly trained and usually in plain clothes and have been doing the job for years. A professional will not make these mistakes. Any retailer that enters into an agreement with a CR company will have a set of guidelines to operate under, JonCris will know this as he seems versed on these matters. CR should only be issued to over 18's, under 65/70 depending on what was agreed, not pregnant women or those obviously mentally or physically impaired.

I have noticed on these forums a few people who have been served with notices that really should not have. The security companies have a poor track record on training regarding this issue, and without trying to sound racist, while they employ foreign nationals who use English as a second language, then this will only exacerbate the problem. The problem lies, not with RLP/ Drydens et al. The charges and the amount thereof have all been through the courts and found to be reasonable, and the actual process of civil recovery has been through the courts and there is case law saying that these charges can be claimed for.

 

The issue that you guys on this forum should really be addressing, is the amount and quality of training/ personnel that the security companies place into retail environments. I have a friend who became a security officer some 15 years ago, and then the training was 5 days in a classroom and a week on site with a qualified trainer, before they were let loose and they were constantly monitored. The security company paid a substantial amount of money for good staff in those days, upwards of £6.00 an hour. If you look at the current rates of pay within the security industry, you will see that they have not risen accordingly over the past 15 years. As in any industry, if you pay a low rate, you will get low quality. If you pay a higher rate, you attract better people and then you can pick and choose who you employ, rather than have the best of a bad bunch.

[JonCris]

There IS case law allowing companies to do this but only AFTER the person has been convicted of a criminal offence which is why these companies are keen that either the victim signs a letter agreeing that they have committed an offence. Failure to agree will mean the police will be summoned & asked to issue a FPN. ............... Faced with the possibility of arrest is it any wonder that most sign the document in the mistaken belief that will be the end of the matter when in fact it's just the beginning

Edited October 20, 2009 by JonCris

[JonCris]

PS one of the worst cases involved a British born security guard In fact most of those complained about appear to be British born & bread

[Button1]

I could have understood if there was a language barrier and this was why the security guard wasn't understanding what I was trying to explain.....

 

.......but nope, my security guard's accent was about as local as they come I'm afraid!

Edited October 20, 2009 by Button1

[shanty]

Hi Sugar Plum Fairy,

You hit the nail on the head. Now without incurring the wrath of those before, when I mentioned a loss prevention professional, I am talking about people who are highly trained and usually in plain clothes and have been doing the job for years. A professional will not make these mistakes. Any retailer that enters into an agreement with a CR company will have a set of guidelines to operate under, JonCris will know this as he seems versed on these matters. CR should only be issued to over 18's, under 65/70 depending on what was agreed, not pregnant women or those obviously mentally or physically impaired.

I have noticed on these forums a few people who have been served with notices that really should not have. The security companies have a poor track record on training regarding this issue, and without trying to sound racist, while they employ foreign nationals who use English as a second language, then this will only exacerbate the problem. The problem lies, not with RLP/ Drydens et al. The charges and the amount thereof have all been through the courts and found to be reasonable, and the actual process of civil recovery has been through the courts and there is case law saying that these charges can be claimed for.

 

The issue that you guys on this forum should really be addressing, is the amount and quality of training/ personnel that the security companies place into retail environments. I have a friend who became a security officer some 15 years ago, and then the training was 5 days in a classroom and a week on site with a qualified trainer, before they were let loose and they were constantly monitored. The security company paid a substantial amount of money for good staff in those days, upwards of £6.00 an hour. If you look at the current rates of pay within the security industry, you will see that they have not risen accordingly over the past 15 years. As in any industry, if you pay a low rate, you will get low quality. If you pay a higher rate, you attract better people and then you can pick and choose who you employ, rather than have the best of a bad bunch.

 

 

You say CR should only be given to over 18s? So why is RLP upholding the CR given to under 18s,there are several notable examples on this forum?

I am glad you have now noticed that several people have been given notices that should not have been,keep reading and you will see why RLP need to be stopped.

[JonCris]

Button & Sugar Plum I assume Stuart has copies of your docs If so have you given permission for him to discuss your matters at the impending meeting

[Button1]

..

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[Billybumpkins]

You say CR should only be given to over 18s? So why is RLP upholding the CR given to under 18s,there are several notable examples on this forum?

I am glad you have now noticed that several people have been given notices that should not have been,keep reading and you will see why RLP need to be stopped.

 

 

I took on a 16 year old cashier. I pay a decent rate to under 18's as I don't believe age should be a barrier to a correct rate of pay. He then stole £5220 pounds from me. He got caught and admitted to the lot. He went to court and got a community punishment. I was not awarded anything.

Can you suggest another way I can get my money back? I have asked him for it, no reply!"!!!!!!!!!

[Button1]

..

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[Billybumpkins]

There IS case law allowing companies to do this but only AFTER the person has been convicted of a criminal offence which is why these companies are keen that either the victim signs a letter agreeing that they have committed an offence. Failure to agree will mean the police will be summoned & asked to issue a FPN. ............... Faced with the possibility of arrest is it any wonder that most sign the document in the mistaken belief that will be the end of the matter when in fact it's just the beginning

 

 

This does not happen in my environment.

 

As I said above, there would be no arrest if nothing untoward had happened. Less than 10 % of thieves go to court. They pay £80 and are free before the security officer/ store detective have written their statement.

 

What is there on a notice of intended civil recovery that says signing the notice means the incident is done with?

[Billybumpkins]

You say CR should only be given to over 18s? So why is RLP upholding the CR given to under 18s,there are several notable examples on this forum?

I am glad you have now noticed that several people have been given notices that should not have been,keep reading and you will see why RLP need to be stopped.

 

 

It is not RLP or the likes that need to be stopped, it is the security officer/retailer that need to think before issuing.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

I took on a 16 year old cashier. I pay a decent rate to under 18's as I don't believe age should be a barrier to a correct rate of pay. He then stole £5220 pounds from me. He got caught and admitted to the lot. He went to court and got a community punishment. I was not awarded anything.

Can you suggest another way I can get my money back? I have asked him for it, no reply!"!!!!!!!!!

 

May be consulting a solicitor, you might have already gone down that line, not sure what more you can do.

How on earth did he manage to steal what to me seems a large sum.

[JonCris]

I took on a 16 year old cashier. I pay a decent rate to under 18's as I don't believe age should be a barrier to a correct rate of pay. He then stole £5220 pounds from me. He got caught and admitted to the lot. He went to court and got a community punishment. I was not awarded anything.

Can you suggest another way I can get my money back? I have asked him for it, no reply!"!!!!!!!!!

 

 

The CPS should have asked for a compensation order, but they seldom do, nevertheless failing that as he was found guilty be a court of law you have every right to take civil action to recover what was stolen plus any additional costs incurred in that recovery

 

No one is saying loss recovery is wrong only that it should only be used where there has been a court conviction

[Billybumpkins]

May be consulting a solicitor, you might have already gone down that line, not sure what more you can do.

How on earth did he manage to steal what to me seems a large sum.

 

 

Has been done, the solicitor has asked me for an outline of the losses, both financial and in time lost investigating and dealing with this person, also wanted to know how much it costs to hire and train a replacement. Sound familiar??

 

Oh, by the way, he also wants £600 for the work.

 

How did he do it, by refunding on to his bank card.

Furthermore, it meant me not being paid for 2 months, so I am looking interest and also for him to pay the solicitor fees

Edited October 21, 2009 by Billybumpkins
add extra info

[Billybumpkins]

The CPS should have asked for a compensation order, but they seldom do, nevertheless failing that as he was found guilty be a court of law you have every right to take civil action to recover what was stolen plus any additional costs incurred in that recovery

 

No one is saying loss recovery is wrong only that it should only be used where there has been a court conviction

 

And if they qualify for a FPN and don't go to court??

 

Isnt that just as guilty as going to court??

 

Does that make to police judge, jury and executioner?

[JonCris]

Do it yourself 1st write to the miscreant & tell him you want ex amount (include an invoice) & that if he fails to pay or come to an arrangement to pay you WILL take civil action through the courts which can only increase his indebtedness to you

 

If he's got any sense whatsoever he'll make arrangements to pay rather than face court again & the subsequent publicity that might follow

[JonCris]

And if they qualify for a FPN and don't go to court??

 

Isnt that just as guilty as going to court??

 

Does that make to police judge, jury and executioner?

 

The accused has to agree to the issuing of the FPN & they are warned that if they refuse they will be arrested & taken to the station where it's not uncommon for them to held for many hours. Now which would you do if confronted with the horror of being arrested put into handcuffs & marched in public to the waiting police van ............ not many people have the bottle to stand up for themselves in such circumstances & refuse to be bullied ............. many even when innocent capitulate

[JonCris]

And if they qualify for a FPN and don't go to court??

 

Isnt that just as guilty as going to court??

 

Does that make to police judge, jury and executioner?

 

Yes it does & it's why FPN are now being questioned by many in the legal profession

[Billybumpkins]

Do it yourself 1st write to the miscreant & tell him you want ex amount (include an invoice) & that if he fails to pay or come to an arrangement to pay you WILL take civil action through the courts which can only increase his indebtedness to you

 

If he's got any sense whatsoever he'll make arrangements to pay rather than face court again & the subsequent publicity that might follow

 

Is that not what the big multiples do, except it is through RLP/ Drydens etc??

 

I really don't see the difference.

[Billybumpkins]

The accused has to agree to the issuing of the FPN & they are warned that if they refuse they will be arrested & taken to the station where it's not uncommon for them to held for many hours. Now which would you do if confronted with the horror of being arrested put into handcuffs & marched in public to the waiting police van ............ not many people have the bottle to stand up for themselves in such circumstances & refuse to be bullied ............. many even when innocent capitulate

 

The horror?? As many professional thieves look upon it as a bad day at the office. I don't see how being taken away for commiting a crime is bullying

 

The spur of the moment thief, well, that is a life choice for them and not something anyone but them should be worrying about.

 

The innocent??

Well, they will not be in this scenario, not in my shop anyway.

In the big multiples, the innocent are handsomely rewarded for any wrong done against them, should the inncoent party take the right steps to complain accordingly, and who in their right mind wouldn't??

[Billybumpkins]

Yes it does & it's why FPN are now being questioned by many in the legal profession

 

 

But wasn't it the legal profession that suggested this in the first place?

 

Isn't it more cost effective than taking them to court?

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Is that not what the big multiples do, except it is through RLP/ Drydens etc??

 

I really don't see the difference.

 

I see the differnence the individual to whom you refer was found quilty by a court, so yes he should pay something but only if you or any company who you instruct issue a county court summons, and of course you will need to win.