Halifax credit card - The ongoing story

[t.a.c]

Hello everyone, i found this site yesterday and i'm very impressed as it is just what i was looking for.

 

Anyway on with the details, i have a halifax credit card that i have had for over 6 years the balance of which is £1200 ish (not as much as some on here but allbeit worth fighting for).

 

Now the interesting bit, when i opened my bank account with halifax some 6 years ago to my amazement i automatically recieved a credit card too i dont remember signing for it or even them mentioning it, i can remember however phoning the branch to see why i had recieved a credit card through the post and not my current account card. Then last year myself and my missus went into the local branch to consolodate our debt (all of which is with halifax) into one easy loan. Once the 'banker' started looking for my credit card account on their system they couldn't find any record of it and it turned out that they had my name misspelt on their system. Anyway they wouldn't give us the loan probably because they would lose interest money by doing so idk?

 

Now i find myself here at this very informative and helpful website full of resources. I think i'm going to go down this path to try and get a copy of my signed agreement with halifax, if one exists that is. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Ill keep this thread updated with my progress and if any of you wise folks have any advice for me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind regards

T.A.C

[vint1954]

Hello everyone, i found this site yesterday and i'm very impressed as it is just what i was looking for.

 

Anyway on with the details, i have a halifax credit card that i have had for over 6 years the balance of which is £1200 ish (not as much as some on here but allbeit worth fighting for).

 

Now the interesting bit, when i opened my bank account with halifax some 6 years ago to my amazement i automatically recieved a credit card too i dont remember signing for it or even them mentioning it, i can remember however phoning the branch to see why i had recieved a credit card through the post and not my current account card. Then last year myself and my missus went into the local branch to consolodate our debt (all of which is with halifax) into one easy loan. Once the 'banker' started looking for my credit card account on their system they couldn't find any record of it and it turned out that they had my name misspelt on their system. Anyway they wouldn't give us the loan probably because they would lose interest money by doing so idk?

 

Now i find myself here at this very informative and helpful website full of resources. I think i'm going to go down this path to try and get a copy of my signed agreement with halifax, if one exists that is. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Ill keep this thread updated with my progress and if any of you wise folks have any advice for me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind regards

T.A.C

You will need to go down the CCA request route first. Using CPR31.16 is usually for when they are threatening legal action.

[t.a.c]

Ah now it makes more sense to me thank you, i thihnk i may have some what overloaded my brain a little. I've read so much i wasn't entirely sure which step to take.

 

So i need to send them a cca request first and go from there, ill have a look around for that letter on the forums again. Thanks:)

[vint1954]

Ah now it makes more sense to me thank you, i thihnk i may have some what overloaded my brain a little. I've read so much i wasn't entirely sure which step to take.

 

So i need to send them a cca request first and go from there, ill have a look around for that letter on the forums again. Thanks:)

Yes CCA request first, send first class recorded signed for. Enclose £1 postal order, made out to the creditor. Print your name do not sign.

 

Letter below.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

With reference to the alleged debt to your company, this letter is a formal request of true copy of a signed and dated credit agreement for the above account number, under the terms and conditions of section 78(1) of the CCA act 1974. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £1.00

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

 

I enclose a postal order no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

They have 12 working days + 2 days to respond. That is the time limit.

 

If you get no response in this time, there is a dispute letter that you can use.

[t.a.c]

Thank you very much for that i'll have it sent off tomorrow

[vint1954]

Thank you very much for that i'll have it sent off tomorrow

If you post it tomorrow, they have until 4pm 10th September to reply.

 

Post your responses.

[t.a.c]

I certainly will, thanks again for your help

[vint1954]

I certainly will, thanks again for your help

No problem, keep the post updated.

[t.a.c]

Hello all again, im a bit delayed in sending off my cca request. Could anyone tell me which number on the postal order i have to put in the letter please.

 

Thanks

[pinny24x7]

Do you mean the reference number? If so this is on the back of the postal order under the bar code....

 

Pinny

[t.a.c]

Please see the letter above posted by vint1954,

 

'I enclose a postal order no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in the sum of £1.00,'

Thanks

[vint1954]

Hello all again, im a bit delayed in sending off my cca request. Could anyone tell me which number on the postal order i have to put in the letter please.

 

Thanks

There is a postal order number individual to each order ( 10-987654321 )

[t.a.c]

Would this be the voucher id printed on the reciept ? 1045919993

 

Thanks again and sorry for seeming a little dumb its just theres various numbers written on the postal order and i want to make sure i note the correct one.

Edited August 25, 2009 by t.a.c
spelling

[vint1954]

Would this be the voucher id printed on the reciept ? 1045919993

 

Thanks again and sorry for seeming a little dumb its just theres various numbers written on the postal order and i want to make sure i note the correct one.

Thats the one

[t.a.c]

You will never guess what i have just found ????

 

The original agreement along with a letter from halifax in 2003

 

Here is the album link on photobucket

 

Pictures by tac_82 - Photobucket

 

Let me know what you think

Thanks

[middenmess]

Thumbnail 1.

 

Confirms that an application form is an application form

 

So if that's a credit card agreement---where do you sign?

 

Could be anyone's copy.

 

 

-------------------------

 

Thumbnail 2.

 

If I was being silly and accepting what is written in the long oblong box,then I could say that those few words therein contained is the credit agreement as it is enclosed and leads nowhere especially as beneath it in large type is ..

 

Halifax Credit Card-Conditions of use

which leads onto 13.6 sections

 

A credit agreement is a credit agreement and Credit Card Conditions of Use are Credit Card Conditions of Use--

 

A silly arguement I know but certainly no sillier that the drivel that the credit card companies keep trying to foist on us in the way of explanations!

[t.a.c]

Just a quick note to say halifax signed for the cca request today.

[vint1954]

You will never guess what i have just found ????

 

The original agreement along with a letter from halifax in 2003

 

Here is the album link on photobucket

 

Pictures by tac_82 - Photobucket

 

Let me know what you think

Thanks

I think those are just terms and conditions. An agreement has to be signed and dated.

[ejleigh68]

t.a.c re your CCA request you may end up with what I had something they call a "reconstituted version of the executed agreement".

All this is, is a nice typed page or two of total bumpf that is not anywhere near a correct and "true" copy of any credit agreement, ususally sent with a set of generic T & Cs. Just a heads up but thats what they seem to be sending everyone on CA requests at present (from reading other threads), you will end up having to ask again and at the end of 12+2 send them a SAR that normally gets their attention ....

It will be intruiging to see what they send you as you say you already have the original agreement/ application, bet they trip themselves up .... ;-)

 

Anyhow subbing with intrest

[vint1954]

This is quite an old area of the Act. What the OC's have picked up on is that they can supply a copy of an agreement, failing to recognise the word true.

 

The act allows them to copy the executed agreement, then by hand as there were no photocopiers, but it has to be a true copy, word by word and term by term. Obviously such documents can omit signature and date of signature, as it would be impossible for the copy to be signed. So theoretically, they could indeed copy the agreement by hand, but why do that these days with photocopiers available.

 

The fact is that they cannot easily lay their hands on the agreements, if at all, so they reconstruct, in the hope that most will accept this. The OFT is clear that a mere reconstruction of what an agreement may have looked like, is not acceptable.

 

They also seem to be focussing down on just s78 for credit cards. The rest of the act obviously comes into play, as this is the statute under which the agreement or contract is drawn up. A point within the act states that the agreement is not executed until both parties have signed. This is common to all contracts and indeed in normal life, if one party does not sign the contract, then there is no agreement to supply or pay for goods and services. If you supply goods or services without a properly signed contract ( executed), then expect severe problems come payment time. It does not appear important though in postings on this forum, but is an important part of the CCA 1974. It was also important enough for Benion to include in the act and to comment on its intention at a later date.

[middenmess]

This is quite an old area of the Act. What the OC's have picked up on is that they can supply a copy of an agreement, failing to recognise the word true.

 

The act allows them to copy the executed agreement, then by hand as there were no photocopiers, but it has to be a true copy, word by word and term by term. Obviously such documents can omit signature and date of signature, as it would be impossible for the copy to be signed. So theoretically, they could indeed copy the agreement by hand, but why do that these days with photocopiers available.

 

The fact is that they cannot easily lay their hands on the agreements, if at all, so they reconstruct, in the hope that most will accept this. The OFT is clear that a mere reconstruction of what an agreement may have looked like, is not acceptable.

 

They also seem to be focussing down on just s78 for credit cards. The rest of the act obviously comes into play, as this is the statute under which the agreement or contract is drawn up. A point within the act states that the agreement is not executed until both parties have signed. This is common to all contracts and indeed in normal life, if one party does not sign the contract, then there is no agreement to supply or pay for goods and services. If you supply goods or services without a properly signed contract ( executed), then expect severe problems come payment time. It does not appear important though in postings on this forum, but is an important part of the CCA 1974. It was also important enough for Benion to include in the act and to comment on its intention at a later date.

 

Hi Vint,

 

At what point, if any, can a signed application form be termed an executed agreement.

 

My application form is signed by me and also has a small box headed ..

 

'For Visa Centre Use Only'

Signed on behalf of the Society

 

This is then signed and dated.

 

By any stretch of a sensible person's [exclude Halifax from this equation] could this be deemed a signed and executed agreement?

[vint1954]

Hi Vint,

 

At what point, if any, can a signed application form be termed an executed agreement.

 

My application form is signed by me and also has a small box headed ..

 

'For Visa Centre Use Only'

Signed on behalf of the Society

 

 

This is then signed and dated.

 

 

 

By any stretch of a sensible person's [exclude Halifax from this equation] could this be deemed a signed and executed agreement?

 

 

In my opinion, an application form is always that, a pre contract document. Others and some judges do dissagree. They should then send you a copy of the executed agreement, within 7 days of execution.

 

I have had a look at your agreement and it is also headed Credit card agreement, so could arguably be ok. The prescribed terms are also there. The only thing that is missing, is the reverse of the form that is referred to on the application. They would need this as one document, if they went to court. Are you still persuing PPI claim.

[vint1954]

The other point with your agreement, is that it is classed as a multiple agreement. The PPI should be separate.

[middenmess]

Haven't sent them the PPI claim yet as I am waiting to see what materialises with my claim for repayment of late charges which they tell me they will not be paying back.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/217048-how-much-youre-aving.html

 

The multiple agreement path is going to be the strongest way of dealing with the 'is it,isn't it' question of an enforceable agreement when we get down to the nitty gritty of the argument.

[bresh67]

I have a Halifax Credit Card which as usual increases every month due to charges as i am struggling to make payments required on it. I have seen and heard the adverts for if you took the card out before 2007 the agrement may be unenforceable. What I would like to know is how is this possible and if it is how do i go about finding out..

 

Any help and advice would be appreciated....