Shakespeare Putsman (Natwest)

[Psychoduck]

Hi,

 

I have financial difficulty at the moment as explained in some of my previous posts. My main issue is with Natwest, whom I owe 6500 on a loan, 1000 on another loan, and 2500 on an Overdraft.

 

Unable to pay them, they passed me on to Triton debt collectors about a month ago. I phoned Triton and explained my situation, they told me £1 a month would not be accepted but to wait for some paperwork to be sent through, fill it in and they'll help if they can.

 

So i waited and got nothing.

 

Today I get a letter from Shakespeare Putman, the exact sam letter Triton sent me in fact, saying they now have to have the money within 2 weeks or I go to court.

 

CAn someone recommend the best course of action please? I assume asking for the signed CCA to prove they are legally allowed to handle the debt, but i'm sure i read somewhere that Shakespear Putman were a different sort of company but i may have imagined that.

[Bazooka Boo]

Just so I know who were talking about here, is it these guys?

Shakespeare Putsman - Solicitors Birmingham

 

If so they are Solicitors and not a DCA, were you ever sent a Notice of Assignment from Natwest?

(Who's in house DCA is Triton)

[Psychoduck]

Yes, it is those guys, and no I was sent nothing.

 

I just had the Triton letter which told me to contact them ASAP. Which i did. My wife was in a similar situation and got in touch with them, and was passed on to Shoosmiths who are seemingly willing to accept a minimum £1, as goodwill, but the debt will be out against the house at court.

 

So when i called Triton and was told they'd send me more information, that is along the lines of what I was expecting. Shoosmiths to get in touch, me get in touch and pay a small amount and have the debt put against the house should we sell it. (which at the moment is moot point anyway, since we owe more on mortagage than it's actual worth)

 

But as I said above, I got nothing. No letters explaining what was going, no information telling me it was going to a solicitor. Instead I just got a letter telling me I need to pay the full amount bt August 26th.

[Psychoduck]

*bump*

 

Can anyone please give me some advice as to what to do? I'm really confused with this. If i cant send a CCA request, then what do i send instead? I only have a week left to reply to this before they "commence recovery without further notice to me"

 

I really need help.

[cerberusalert]

Send Shakespeare Putsman a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12+2 days or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

Furthermore, with regards to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Trading Standards can bring about a prosecution if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

(Optional addition)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature)

 

Send NatWest a SAR http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca They will have to send you all the information they have on you and all your a/cs you hold with them. You will get copies of agreements & statements which will allow you to reclaim any unfair charges they may have added to the a/cs.

[Psychoduck]

Hi this is my wifes accoutn with Natwest;

 

Currently outstanding with natwest she has:

 

Overdraft: 2xxxx

Loan: 4xxxx

Loan: 4xxxx

 

 

Shoosmiths have filed a County Court claim, looking for a claim of 10xxxxx, with 190 in court fees, and 100 for a solicitor. total Claim of £11xxxxx

 

However, we have no idea how to go about filling this in. We know how to fill in a form obviously, we know our bank details and home adresss but We dont know which parts she should do.

 

In her response pack, she is told to complete differnt forms for different reasons.

 

"If you admit all the amount claimed and want time to pay > fill in the admission form" ---- Well she does admit the amount claimed, but cant afford to pay at all cause we're on benefits and cant spare more than £1 a month. Are we correct in assuming that this 'time to pay' relies on you still paying the full amount in a lump sum?

 

"If you need 28 days, instead of 14, to the date of service in order to prepare your defence or wish to contest the courts jurisdiction > fill in acknowledgement of service" ---- This is what we assume we have to fill in, but there are 3 boxes to tick. Defending the whole claim, part claim, or contesting Jurisdiction.

 

We have one week to get this paperwork in, but we have no clue about what forms to fill in in response to them, and furthermore have no clue about how to defend ourselves in court.

 

Will my wife even have to go to court? will she need to be there in person?

 

I myself am also in the exact same boat, but am getting my debt sorted through Shakespeare Putsman and it's at the stage before the court claim forms are due to be sent out (as posted in another thread) So really, any advice here is doubly helpful as it will help me in the coming months as well.

 

So please, any help that people can give to us will be incredibly helpful and really appreciated.

 

Ive read through a few other threads on this, and feel that the posters of this forum are likely going to be our best chance at making the best of the situation as so many have been helped before. But despite reading other peoples posts, I've either missed information about the initial claim papers, or i've misunderstood it.

Edited August 18, 2009 by 42man
edited amounts to protect id of poster...

[supasnooper]

You will need to do the Acknowledgment of Service and state that you wish to "defend all".

If she admits to the debt then a CCJ will be awarded by default and she won't get a chance to defend at all !!

 

You will the need to send Shoosmiths a CPR 31.14 request as soon as possible. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html.

Amend to suit, do not sign and send by recorded delivery.

 

It would be goood if your wife did attend the court hearing as she will need to explain the defence to the claim.

 

Have a look at this thread for further info - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

 

And do some more reading around the site - a good start point would be the threads here - DCA Legal Successes - The Consumer Forums

[42man]

So they have lumped up 3 debts into 1 ? I suspect they may be doing this to avoid their obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Can you state exactly what the Particulars Of The Claim are please ?

[Psychoduck]

The thing is, she doesn't dispute the claim at all. She's fully aware of the money she owes, and she agrees it's her responsibility to pay it. She doesn't want to defend the amount of anything, cause she 100% agrees that it's her responsibility to pay it. We just have no way of affording it due to certain things which have lead to us both being unemployed (house fire, and illness) and obviously struggling for cash (especially since we have a mortgage too, which is thankfully kept in good stead thanks to interest relief)

 

So would she still defend this claim? I was just wondering if the defence is a defence of the amount, or a defence of how they're trying to claim a lump sum.

 

 

As for paticulars, they are listed as such:

 

The Defendant(D) held the accounts as listed below with Claimant ©

D Failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below remain outstanding.

Account number: Debt:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx £4123.78

vvvvvvvvvvvvvv £4224.36

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx £2497.08

 

C has clomplied, as far as is necessary with the preaction conduct practice direction.

[42man]

The particulars of the claim give no clause and are VERY vague.....what about penalty charges ? have they sent a compliant default notice ? agreement request ?

[the_shadow]

Hi Psychoduck,

 

Do you have equity in your house?

 

I think you need to look at the bigger picture here... If they get their CCJ are they going to be happy with just £1 a month until the amount is paid off... I dont think so... not on such a large outstanding debt

 

More likely they will go for a charging order on the house to secure the debt.. this leaves the potential for them to try and force the sale at some point in the future (Not all creditors do this but some do unfortunately)

 

The two loans would require an exit of the agreement by a specific method and requires them to send you compliant default notices and have valid CCA agreements, the overdraft loan which is the smallest amount unfortunately isnt really covered by the CCA. Lumping in all three amounts make's it easier to sneak under the radar so to speak on the required exit strategy.

 

S.

[Psychoduck]

The paticulars that I listed are all we were informed of. We were just given those paticulars and the Claim Form, I'm pretty sure we have no agreement request or compliant default notice. We've been keeping all our paperwork this past 6 months, and I cant find either of them.

 

Our only other letter from them is them letting us know that received note of issue from the county court, and telling us to pay a large lump sum to settle it before the 31st August to avoid the claim going ahead.

 

As for Equity in our house, we have none. We bought the house for 99,950 with a 10000 deposit. We made our first 4 payments before all the trouble started and we needed a payment break which was granted for 4 months. We then had 3 months unpaid, which they were VERY understanding about, and in March we got Interest relief which we still have paid to them now and we'll be swtiching to an interest only mortgage within the next couple of months so make sure all money owed goes to them, instead of us missing off the 50-70 pound extra from the repayment part of the mortgage.

 

The mortgage is 35 years, we took it out in April last year, so it has 34 years left and I'm pretty sure we currently, with interest added and missed payments, owe mroe than the 99,950 we got the house for. Which has likely lost some value this past year due to the financial climate.

 

So as far as I'm aware there's no equity in it. Also the debt is only in my wifes name, I have debt too but in my own name in a seperate account, the mortgage however is a joint account and is with a different bank (halifax).

[42man]

If it was me in your shoes I would send this recorded to the opposing solicitors, as for the claim form, you've got to acknowledge receipt of the claim form within 14 days of the date on the form, if you wish to defend then state DEFEND all, but you get an extra 14+3 days in which to submit your defence, so it is too early to put a defence in....

 

This is the CPR18 request.

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of default notices or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

Please have a read here too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/140032-hsbc-county-court-claim.html#post1493492

[42man]

And read this one too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156156-help-mum-being-taken.html#post1665130

[42man]

i'll also move this thread to the Legal Forums too...

[Psychoduck]

Ok, thanks I will get that letter sent out now.

 

The Claim form is dated August 12. So we have til the 26th to acknowledge it. Which we'll do now stating defend all as was advised earlier.

[42man]

Just be aware that you MIGHT have to go to court to fight this if needed...please do spend some time reading around the forums as well you will find some very useful information. To defend or not is entirely up to you.....certainly if you admit all or admit part, you will get a CCJ...

[Psychoduck]

Ok, I got a letter from Shakespeare Putsman about 4 weeks ago stating that they were taking over my account on behalf of Natwest and would be seeking legal action. I sent them a CCA request which was delivered on the 17th of August and was ignored (I was told it may be)

 

Today I have been served with a court claim form, which is very badly photocopied, and i do mean very badly... the bottom half of two sheets is unreadable.

 

In it, they are claiming for monies I know I owe them. Plus a court fee and solicitors fee.

 

I dont dispute the money i owe them, however I cant afford to pay it at all. I'm currently on benefits due to illness, and at the moment I'm paying all creditors £1 a month.

 

I'm aware that my best course of action is to fill in and return the form, filling in the form stating my income and expenditure and giving them my suggested payment (this part is just about clear enough to make out on the form) however there are big chunks I cant read, and I'm worried it's important.

 

Should I just fill in what is there? Or should i send a request for another copy? I'm worried if I request another copy it'll take more than the 14 day time limit i'm allowed to arrive :\

[AndyOrch]

Hi Psycho

Ok firstly what have you recieved?

Summons are not photocopied but original.

Is it from Northampton CCBC?

Has it got their stamp on it and does it have a MCOL password?

Who is the Claimant and who are acting Sols?

 

Regards

 

Andy

PS welcome to Cag

[MAGDA]

Hi psychoduck, did you do the CCA request, and did you get any response. We are being taken to court by Nwest, also Shakespeare Putsman in our case, for an overdraft. We were actually making payments,but not enough as far as they were concerned, and no room to negotiate. Magda