Elsinore v Citi Cards***WON & PAID***

[GaryH]

Best of luck mate!!

[mcuth]

Aye, good luck Elsinore, can't wait for your report

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[hondamad21]

Best of luck,

 

Waiting with baited breath !

 

 

Hondamad

[elsinore]

I'm back.

 

Els

[stan5131]

Come on Els.... we are waiting!!!

[hondamad21]

I'm back.

 

Els

 

 

Well . . . . . . . :confused:

 

What happened ??????????

 

Hondamad

[elsinore]

Quick summary.

 

David Travis representing Citi

Part-time stand-in judge.

Court file missing!

Judge no experience of such claims.

Long discussion.

Got order for directions!

10 minute hearing lasted 50 minutes

Got parking ticket!

 

More on this story later.

 

Els

[stan5131]

Got order for directions? Does this mean you got order for disclosure?

[elsinore]

Yup!

 

Els

[Enron]

Did the points I put forward help?

[TideTurner]

Quick summary.

 

David Travis representing Citi

Part-time stand-in judge.

Court file missing!

Judge no experience of such claims.

Long discussion.

Got order for directions!

10 minute hearing lasted 50 minutes

Got parking ticket!

 

More on this story later.

 

Els

 

Els,

 

Does this help?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/5232-your-parking-ticket-may.html#post33074

 

Tide:mad:

[elsinore]

Guys, I appreciate you're all keen to know but, even at my great age, I still have to work for a living!

 

I promise you a blow-by-blow account later today, together with the wording of the Order.

 

Els

[TideTurner]

I knew a girl once.....

[Enron]

Cool. Will wait till later.

[elsinore]

Met David Travis from Citi, prior to entering the courtroom. Took an instant dislike to him because he is both young and handsome!

 

I drew his attention to the discrepancy between my claimed amount of charges and the amount in Citi’s defence. He wondered if I had failed to take into account any refunded charges, but I assured him there were none. I had to show him a copy of a letter I had received from Brian Smith which confirmed my figures. He didn’t have a copy of the letter in his papers. He was a little disconcerted and therefore slightly on the back foot when we were called.

 

District Judge Bury had clearly been drafted in to assist. He admitted that he was not familiar with this type of claim, being a part-timer. He sought introductions from us both and had a stab at summarising why we were there. He asked me for my copy of the claim form, which I thought was odd. The reason for his uncertainty became all too clear when the court usher poked her head round the door and reported that they were still unable to locate the file!

“Not to worry” said Bury J, “We’re managing quite well without it!”

 

As, indeed, we were, with both DT and myself handing the Judge documents from our respective files as the discussion progressed. Both of us were allowed to make our various points, which were received fairly. Much of the discussion was taken up with the Judge sorting out in his own mind where 1st Credit fitted in and why I appeared to be claiming back charges which I had never paid. In the end, he was satisfied that I was looking to have the account balance reduced to zero and only seeking reimbursement of the excess. He came to the conclusion that if I agreed to amend my PoC and if DT confirmed that Citi would defend it, he would make an order to proceed.

 

I then realised that, without the court file in front of him the Judge had had no opportunity to see my letter and request for an Order for Directions. I drew this to his attention and he agreed to read my file copies. He clearly liked the Draft Order, fell upon it with gusto and proceeded to amend it to take into account the points previously agreed.

He scored out the title ‘Draft Order for Directions’, replaced it with the word ‘ORDER’ and signed and dated it.

 

I have no doubt that our side won the day. DT didn’t have a lot to say and seemed content to let things take their course. He is actually a very pleasant, affable man.

 

The Judge was so concerned about processing delays at the Court, that he gave us the Order to take to the Court office for photocopying! I’ll transcribe it and post it later.

 

The whole episode could be described as a dignified Fred Karno’s.

 

The only downside was that I was 7 minutes over my hour’s parking and got a ticket! Thanks for the link, Tide!

 

Els

[GaryH]

Great job Els - you played a blinder by the seems of it! Good work.

 

Did their sol not object to the disclosure order? I.e "commercially sensitive...... blah, blah, blah...."

[stan5131]

Well done Els. A landmark for all of us!

[Jeff2000]

Hello Elsinore,

 

 

Well done! It looks like 1-0 to you!

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

[mcuth]

Sounds like a bit of a result to me - nice one Els

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[elsinore]

ORDER

 

 

Elsinore - Claimant

 

 

and

 

 

CitiFinancial Europe plc - Defendant

 

 

 

1. The Claimant shall by 4 pm on 26th April 2007 send to the Defendant and the Court:

1.1 A schedule setting out each charge, repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

1.2 Copies of any statements or other documents relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

1.3 A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

1.4 Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon;

1.5 An amended Particulars of Claim seeking a declaration that he is not liable to the Defendant’s assignees, if it be the case that, whilst he has not paid (all of) the default charges, they are nevertheless being sought from him.

 

If the claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

2. The Defendant shall by 4 pm. on 10th May 2007 file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed:

2.1 Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

2.2 Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty and, if not, why not;

2.3 If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant’s loss incurred by the Claimant’s actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss and all evidence to be adduced at the trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

2.4 If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant’s loss incurred by the Claimant’s actions, then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable;

2.5 Any witness statements;

2.6 Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon;

2.7 Whether they accept the Claimant’s entitlement to the declaration referred to at 1.5 (if amended Particulars have been served) and if not, why not

 

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the defence will be struck out without further order.

 

3. List for hearing first available date after 1st June 2007.

Signed Bury J 12th April 2007.

[stan5131]

Fantastic stuff. We all know what is coming next!!!!!

[elsinore]

 

Did their sol not object to the disclosure order? I.e "commercially sensitive...... blah, blah, blah...."

 

No, he didn't, Gary! I think he was not very well prepared. The only time he requested anything was to ask for longer than two weeks to respond to the order. The judge concurred and gave him 4 weeks. I assumed, wrongly, that that would apply to me as well, hence the discrepancy in the dates. Do you think this might give them an advantage?

 

Els

[GaryH]

Excellent! 2 weeks for the claimant and 4 weeks for the defendant is the usual timescale for these orders - to be honest even if they had 8 weeks I can't see it making any difference!

 

Which court is it by the way?

[Enron]

They didn't comply in my case to the draft order, so it's pretty much a certainty that they won't in yours.

 

You'll have to start putting your bundle together, if you need any help let me know and I can give you my standard dislosure list which will give you an idea of what to include.

[gizmo111]

Good result - Well done