Advice needed on a PPI claim...please

[hsbclinkdcms]

Hi,

just had my 8 week response through from my lender stating that they did not sell the PPI to me and a broker did so they accept no liability.

 

I did go through a broker for the loan and there was a section filled in on their priority application form with regard to repayment protection and they were the ones who sold me the product. However there was a subsequant insurance application form direct from the lender that I had to sign (the amounts for the insurance were filled in after we returned it !!) and return.

 

The financial aspects of both forms bare no resemblance to each other, on the brokers application it was listed as a separate monthly payment yet on the lenders form it was stated as a capital sum which it eventually turned out to be, front loaded onto the loan.

 

I have argued with the lender that whilst it was stated by the broker that I had to have the insurance or the loan would not be granted they had a responsibility to ensure that the PPI was appropriate (HMG so no issues there), they had to explain full cost and all the other reasons etc etc etc and that what was eventually sold to me was not the product offered by the broker but the product sold by the lender.

 

Who do you think is responsible in this situation and who should I be chasing ?

[alanalana]

Hello hsbclinkdcms,

 

Hi,

just had my 8 week response through from my lender stating that they did not sell the PPI to me and a broker did so they accept no liability.

 

I did go through a broker for the loan and there was a section filled in on their priority application form with regard to repayment protection and they were the ones who sold me the product. However there was a subsequant insurance application form direct from the lender that I had to sign (the amounts for the insurance were filled in after we returned it !!) and return.

 

The financial aspects of both forms bare no resemblance to each other, on the brokers application it was listed as a separate monthly payment yet on the lenders form it was stated as a capital sum which it eventually turned out to be, front loaded onto the loan.

 

I have argued with the lender that whilst it was stated by the broker that I had to have the insurance or the loan would not be granted they had a responsibility to ensure that the PPI was appropriate (HMG so no issues there), they had to explain full cost and all the other reasons etc etc etc and that what was eventually sold to me was not the product offered by the broker but the product sold by the lender.

 

Who do you think is responsible in this situation and who should I be chasing ?

 

If your PPI appears within your Consumer Credit Agreement then whoever the Agreement is with is the one to chase. This is happening a lot separate broker so the creditor blames broker and broker blames creditor. It is the Agreement document that is important you will no doubt find the CCA will have the details of the loan and the PPI that has been attached on the same agreement.

 

Can you give details of the creditor and broker please?

 

aa

[hsbclinkdcms]

Just a little more info on this;

 

On the initial priority application form from the broker it states;

 

REPAYMENT PROTECTION INSURANCE (please tick appropriate box if required)

Life, redundancy, accident & sickness cover £51.53 per month for 1st applicant (followed by a box with a 'Y' typed in).....for 2nd applicant (box with a 'Y' typed in and subsequantly NO scrawled across in biro by persons unknown after it had been returned)

 

On the lenders application form it states them as the agent.

 

1st customer name ?????? Address ??????? Age ??????

2nd customer name ?????? Address ?????? Age ??????

 

INSURANCES

 

Creditcare 1st customer (manual tick in box completed after we signed and returned) 2nd customer (empty box) Joint (empty box) Premium £3900 (filled in after we had returned this application)

 

It was the lenders insurance that applied to the loan, quite clearly there is no correlation between the insurance offered by the broker and that which applied to the loan, the sets of figures and the monies quoted bear no resemblance to each other at all.

 

So who should I be chasing ???

[alanalana]

It would help if you could post up your a copy of your agreement but with all personal details removed signatures, sort codes, account numbers, names, addresses etc but leave in the figures.

 

Is your lender/creditor hsbc?

 

aa

[hsbclinkdcms]

Hi Alanalana, thanks for the response, I was typing my next post when you replied.

 

The agreement is unregulated and it states;

 

YOU HAVE APPLIED FOR OPTIONAL CREDIT INSURANCE COVER THE BENEFIT OF WHICH HAS BEEN EXPLAINED TO YOU. IN THE CASE OF JOINT APPLICATIONS IT IS SPECIFIED THAT ONLY hsbclinkdcms HAS THE BENEFIT OF OPTIONAL CREDIT COVER IF TAKEN UP.......this is all that is stated about PPI on the agreement.

 

The facts are that nothing other than 'take the insurance cover or no loan' was said, nothing about true cost and a whole host of other reasons etc etc there isn't even any mention on the agreement of the figures involved just a capital sum.

 

They are saying we didn't sell this to you and you are claiming miss selling so go to the broker who sold you it. The point I made in my second post is that it was clearly their insurance (figures and payments) that was used so they must be liable ??

 

Do you think I should go to the FOS about the lender, if this fails would I get the second bite at the broker ??

[alanalana]

Hi Alanalana, thanks for the response, I was typing my next post when you replied.

 

The agreement is unregulated and it states;

 

YOU HAVE APPLIED FOR OPTIONAL CREDIT INSURANCE COVER THE BENEFIT OF WHICH HAS BEEN EXPLAINED TO YOU. IN THE CASE OF JOINT APPLICATIONS IT IS SPECIFIED THAT ONLY hsbclinkdcms HAS THE BENEFIT OF OPTIONAL CREDIT COVER IF TAKEN UP.......this is all that is stated about PPI on the agreement.

 

The facts are that nothing other than 'take the insurance cover or no loan' was said, nothing about true cost and a whole host of other reasons etc etc there isn't even any mention on the agreement of the figures involved just a capital sum.

 

They are saying we didn't sell this to you and you are claiming miss selling so go to the broker who sold you it. The point I made in my second post is that it was clearly their insurance (figures and payments) that was used so they must be liable ??

 

Do you think I should go to the FOS about the lender, if this fails would I get the second bite at the broker ??

 

I am still no clearer as to who your lender/creditor is IE what company name is on the Consumer Credit Agreement?

 

That is who to claim from, not the broker.

 

aa

[hsbclinkdcms]

Hi sorry for the delay (a slow typer !!)

 

The company I am dealing with is now CITI but was Future Mortgages.

 

Future Mortgages are listed as the insurance agent on the second insurance application form (the insurance that applied to the account) and are on the agreement as the lender.

[alanalana]

The company I am dealing with is now CITI but was Future Mortgages.

 

Future Mortgages are listed as the insurance agent on the second insurance application form (the insurance that applied to the account) and are on the agreement as the lender.

 

In that case IMO you should claim against Future Mortgages..

 

You can find more information on the company in here...

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmSearchForm.do

 

Just type in the firms name and hit the submit button all the info will come up and everything in red is a link to more in depth information.

Basic details for:

 

306086 - Future Mortgages Limited

 

Current status: Authorised

Effective Date: 31/10/2004

Tied Agent:

Undertakes Insurance Mediation: Y

Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:

Address: Citigroup Centre

Canada Square

London

E14 5LB

Phone: 44 020 8636 3926

Fax: 44 020 8636 3926

Email: [email protected]

Website:CitiFinancial - Citibank

Notices: Unable to hold client money.

 

aa

Edited June 9, 2009 by alanalana
text and link added

[hsbclinkdcms]

Thank you very much.

[alanalana]

You're welcome good luck;)

 

aa

[hsbclinkdcms]

Hi all been a while but I've just had this response from the FOS;

 

I am sorry to have to tell you we are unable to investigate your complaint about CAP 1 because the event you have complained about (the sale of your PPI) took place on a date before the sale of insurance policies by this firm became covered by our jurisdiction and the transitional arrangements in place that can extend our jurisdiction in certain circumstances do not help in this instance.

 

However, I am presently investigating the possibility of raising your concerns with the underwriter of your policy, i.e. the insurance company who actually provided the cover under the policy. It would be helpful if you could provide us with any information you have on the underwriter of the policy, This may include copies of certificates of insurance or policy documents. Please send any documents you may have to me at the above address.

 

Unfortunately, I am unable at this point to give any indication as to whether the underwriter has (or is willing to accept) responsibility for the sale, but I will keep you updated on a regular basis with any progress we make.

 

Anyone any ideas with this, what's going on ? What can I do etc.

 

Thanks for looking.

[hsbclinkdcms]

Ok, I think I've got this...it's not GISC or FSA governed so they attempt to go the underwriter route.

 

Has anyone had any success with the FOS using this route or should it now be a case of LBA and the courts ??

 

Grateful for any help.

[postggj]

when did you take out the agreement with the insurance

 

was it before 2005

[hsbclinkdcms]

Yes, april 2004

[postggj]

leave this with me for a bit

 

ime sure they still had to be regulated

 

checking

[hsbclinkdcms]

Many thanks

[postggj]

It is true that if you bought your policy before 31 January 2005, then the seller may not have been regulated by the FSA. It is only companies that are regulated more widely by the FSA – banks, building societies, insurance companies – that will have been covered by the FSA before then.

 

If the seller was an insurance broker or some other seller, such as a car dealership selling PPI alongside finance agreements, then the sale of PPI would not have been regulated before January 2005. But you may still complain to the FOS about PPI sold before then if the complaint is about a claim - where the policy does not pay out when you think it should do.

 

In this case it is the underwriters - the insurance company deciding your claim – that you are complaining about and these companies will have been regulated.

 

You may even be able to claim that a policy sold before 31 January 2005 had been mis-sold if you can show that the terms of the policy contract were unfair – again it would be the underlying insurer that you would complain against..

[hsbclinkdcms]

OK thanks, that is obviously what I'm going to have to do as far as the FOS is concerned now...the problem now is trying to find out who the underwriters were !!

 

There was a broker involved that have since bee bought out by Cap 1 so I suppose my next step is them even though I had a nil return as far as the insurance policy was concerned on my SAR last year...ahh well !!

[postggj]

Well Capone Will Have Taken On The Rights And Responsabilities Of The Broker

 

Including Any Dodgy Dealings

[hsbclinkdcms]

Yes but I need the underwriters details and what's the betting capone are 'not in a position to supply them'.

[postggj]

Want A Bet

 

Give Me 5 Min

[postggj]

TRY THIS

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)

 

obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

Regards

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

[postggj]

Bit Of Bed Time Reading

 

If You Discover Undisclosed Commission Payments

 

Look At

 

Wilson V Hurstanger

[hsbclinkdcms]

OK, thanks for that...I will digest and get back...many thanks.