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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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experto claimform - Mbna- Virgin Card ***Claim Discontinued***


Dotty50
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Hi Dizzie,

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

Just myself in a twist with which CPR to send!

 

31.14, which I have drafted a letter as above

 

18 is for a request for information when in receipt of a vague POC, which mine is!

 

But then I see that postggj mentioned 31.16 to use in the absence of a detailed POC!

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Hi Dotty, just looking in to offer my support. I am in the same boat as you with MBNA. I have got to the stage where I have filed my defence and got a few letters from solicitors asking me to retract my defence other than that all has gone quiet. so hoping they have decided to drop it.

Like you I read and read but trying to take anything in seems impossible just goes over my head at the moment. so rest assured you are by no means alone in this Im sure you will get all the help you need I know I have so far and it really has made a difference in the way I am looking at things.8-)

 

Just try not to let them grind you down although easier said than done.:razz:

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Thank heavens for this site. I have read and read until my head is spinning. I know I will be a jibbering idiot if I have to go to court. We all seem to be at a similar stage so maybe they've done a 'batch' of claims.

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Yes, it seems they do these bulk claims in the hope that many do not defend and they get the judgement by default.

 

Well, in the absence of any comments on the CPR letter i have posted, I will get it in the post tomorrow.

 

Can I send the CPR 18 together?

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So is it just a copy of the agreement you are requesting in the CPR31.14, Dotty ?

 

If so that looks fine. What are you requesting in the CPR18 .. ??

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Hi CB thanks for looking in.

 

Yes I was just asking for the running credit account as that is all that is mention in the POC.

 

As far as CPR 18 is concerned, I believe that I should ask for details and dates of the assignment, DN, Termination notice, original T & C's.

 

I did responded to Aplins lba, requesting a legible copy of the CCA and NOA, they have received it but I've not had a reply yet.

 

I also had a letter recently from MBNA, stating that they couldnot comply with my s78 request (April 09!) and confirmed no legal action would be taken whilst they are in breach!

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Hi CB thanks for looking in.

 

Yes I was just asking for the running credit account as that is all that is mention in the POC.

 

As far as CPR 18 is concerned, I believe that I should ask for details and dates of the assignment, DN, Termination notice, original T & C's.

 

I did responded to Aplins lba, requesting a legible copy of the CCA and NOA, they have received it but I've not had a reply yet.

 

I also had a letter recently from MBNA, stating that they couldnot comply with my s78 request (April 09!) and confirmed no legal action would be taken whilst they are in breach!

 

Hmm, this is nice to have, but since then there have been two test cases havent there and they have muddied the water a bit.

 

You are going to have read up on the Carey v HSBC decision.. Restons/MBNA will try to persuade you that the DJ said that any scrappy bit of paper is good for court.. whereas what he did actually say was that it would ok for the s78 request... but that they would need more proof for court.

 

 

 

Be sure to note points: 95 - 105, 112, 116 and the concusions

 

There is a lot of discussion about this on the following threads ..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?255093-Waksman-Ruling

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?240186-Dissecting-the-Manchester-Test-Case....&p=3226475#post3226475

 

It is my understanding that where a company has perhaps had flood or fire and documents are lost then they should be able to reconstruct documents.. but it appears that ALL creditors who perhaps didnt have the correct paperwork in the first instance are saying they too should be allowed to reconstruct in order to get it right. You might just have to fight your corner on this one and especially more so as it is MBNA.

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..........Well, in the absence of any comments on the CPR letter i have posted, I will get it in the post tomorrow.

 

Can I send the CPR 18 together?

 

dotty

how about, sending the 31.14? and, drafting your 18 in the meantime if it's not quite ready yet? and, as you said before, trying for an agreed extension?

imo.

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Hi CB thanks for those links, I am subbing to the Manchester one so had read about the Carey ruling and how it is being interpreted.

 

It Hillesdens that have issued the claim, they managed to produce a document with my signature on from 1992 but I can't read it so don't know whether it refers to any T & C's on the back or anything.

 

Hillesdens also bought this debt before the expiry of the DN, which is evident in the SAR, although it was denied by MBNA.

 

Unlawful Rescission is what I understood, left my liability as the arrears less any unlawful charges, although I have since read that UR doesn't apply to CC's!

 

Perhaps I should just write to Aplins to negotiate F & F, to save all the stress, but would like to offer a defence if I can in the first instance.

 

There are some threads on here where, due to no response from the claimant, the cases have been stayed, so was hoping to at lease get there if I can.

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dotty

how about, sending the 31.14? and, drafting your 18 in the meantime if it's not quite ready yet? and, as you said before, trying for an agreed extension?

imo.

 

Yes Ford, I think that is the way to go for now, thank you

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Hmmm, sounds like you need diddydicky, emandcole, gh2008 on your side.. send them a pm and ask if they have the time. It is always a bit awkward around this time of year due to prior commitments :(

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Yes, it seems they do these bulk claims in the hope that many do not defend and they get the judgement by default.

 

Well, in the absence of any comments on the CPR letter i have posted, I will get it in the post tomorrow.

 

Can I send the CPR 18 together?

 

the "way to go" (IMO) is NOT to submit a defence but instead respond that the particulars of claim are vague and insufficient to the extent that you are unable to sumbmit a defence and a request that the claimant shall submit a fully pariticularised POC or the claim shall stand struck out

 

you CANNOT defend the statement they have made in the POC

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Thanks 42man, I will have a read, but I think I am in danger of overload and getting more confused with so many different opinions on how to proceed.

 

I feel that dd has hit the nail on the head (as he usually does) I just need guidance on how to do it.

 

I have held fire on the CPR 31.14 for now but it is in the envelope ready to post

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The following was posted by pt2537

Embarrassed Defences in my humble opinion do not work, why? . ... read the following thread..

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283443-Embarrased-Defences-and-the-problems-with-them.

 

Anyway, why doesn’t an embarrassed Defence work, well, here is my take on it

 

You receive a claim, the claimant refers to a credit agreement in his claim, the claim comes from the Bulk Centre and doesn’t have the agreement attached.

 

So, what do you do, well, the first thing, you seek an extension of time under CPR 15.5. As a party can agree to extend the deadline up to 56 days , yes 56 that’s 28 for the original time frames and a further 28 on top.

 

Why do you need the extension, well its simple, you need to obtain further information and documentation to be able to adequately defend.

 

You should also make a 31.14 request for the documents pleaded in the claim form, and this should be provided within 7 days of receipt. you must not sit on your butt though and must move fast as time is of the essence. You need to remember to file the acknowledgment of service too.

 

So, what if the Claimant fails to agree to the extension of time, well tell them that you are going to apply for an order of the court and costs against them for their unreasonable conduct. You apply on an N244, The reasons for your app will be obvious i would suggest and you should seek an extension of time, disclosure of the documents you need and costs.

 

Don’t forget to write to the court if the other-side agrees your extension, it is a must, if you forget then you could get a default judgment against you and thats just a pain. it is in the CPR so read it, CPR 15.5.

 

I’m not here to hold your hand, you have to do some work yourself, i suggest you read EVERY rule i refer to, cos it’s your ass that’s in the sling here.

 

Ok,

 

So, now you have your documents that are referred to in the Claim, you have 56 days for a defence ( I assume) and you have some points which you aren't sure of, so what do you do? Well if you need more information, then make a part 18request. See my thread on CPR 18.

 

part 18replies must be verified with a statement of truth so can be relied upon in court in evidence and are binding.

 

So, you get all the info, what now

 

Well its Defence time

 

So, none of this I’m embarrassed because no cause of action blah blah,

 

Why not say the following

 

The Defendant takes issue with the Claimants pleadings. The Claim is a Bulk Centre claim, however, the rules on pleading apply even to the Bulk Centre and furthermore the Bulk Centre rules and guidelines state that if you cannot properly particularise the claim in 1024 characters then you should not use the Bulk Centre to issue the claim. The Claimants pleadings amount to circa 258 characters, leaving at least 700 characters available for the Claimant to plead adequately. The Defendant is embarrassed by the Claim, which faces him.

That sets out the issues, and a judge is more likely to accept that than "there is no cause of action ,,,,,," which is nonsense in most cases.

 

It is also helpful to note that HHJ Platts in HFO v Patel made it clear, that if you wish to raise an allegation of improper execution, then you must plead the breaches, not just say the agreement is unenforceable.

 

So, if the agreement is illegible then you say so but if the document is sooo illegible that you can read it, don’t go spouting off about the prescribed terms blah blah blah and what Lord Nichols of Birkenhead said in Wilson v FCT as its irrelevant

 

if you made a s78(1) request and the only document you have been disclosed to date is illegible and can’t be read then say so

 

for example

The document referred to as the “credit agreement” a copy of which is annexed to this

amended Defence marked exhibit is not easily legible and therefore fails to comply

with Regulation 2 Consumer Credit Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents

Regulations 1983

No statement of account was provided

No terms applicable at the time of the purported assignment were provided.

Accordingly the Claimant is not compliant with s78 (1).

The Defendant is unable to plead as to any deficiencies within the agreement, nor is the

Defendant able to properly assess the document which the Claimant relies upon. The

Defendant accepts that further to the judgment of HHJ Platt’s in HFO v Patel and HHJ

Waksman Qc in Carey v HSBCthat the Defendant should plead any issues surrounding

any allegations of improper execution emanating from the agreement. However, since

the only documents produced are so grossly illegible, the Defendant is unable to plead

as to any defects. This seriously prejudices the Defendant as the Defendant is unable to

assess if this document is complete, if there are other documents referred to within it, if

the statutory content required by s61 (1)(a) CCA 1974 and Regulation 2 and schedule 1,2

and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 is present and accurate within the

document which the Claimant relies upon.

don’t waffle, it’s pointless, set out the facts that you are relying upon

 

plead your defence and remember, that CPR 16, where a party makes a denial as to the pleaded case of the Claimant, the rules require that a positive averment as to the facts you rely upon in rebutting the Claimants point. so if you don’t agree with the Claimants points in their claim say so, if you never signed an agreement and remember 100% say so, do not put the Claimant to strict proof of a signed agreement as you will just get Carey thrown in your face.

 

 

 

 

Dotty, I dont know if the above will be of any use to you.

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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cit b has given you all you need- just adapt it to your circumstances

 

Yep agree with DD

 

You can send off a CPR31.12 request for further info - they do not need to have already been disclosed (31.14) but the request has to be resaonable. Well the agreement has been disclosed, but the Default Notice has not, nor has a statement of account, nor details of the assignment.

 

Also check that what they have sent previously complies with the requirement of S78 which are actually more thorough that you may expect.

 

You could also ask for clarification of the current status of the account. running or terminated? if terminated, then how and by whom? if running then who is the creditor?

That's an interesting but important line of questioning with 'sold debts'

 

If you do not get the answer then N244 into Court for a full reply or strike out order.

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Hi Emandcole,

 

Thanks for looking in, yes I have done AOS online with the intention to defend.

 

The POC states - The Claimant's claim against the defendant is for the amount due and unpaid as at todays date under a regulated running monthly credit account.

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Yep agree with DD

 

You can send off a CPR31.12 request for further info - they do not need to have already been disclosed (31.14) but the request has to be resaonable. Well the agreement has been disclosed, but the Default Notice has not, nor has a statement of account, nor details of the assignment.

Thank you that is a great help, is there any particular format the request should be in?

 

 

Also check that what they have sent previously complies with the requirement of S78 which are actually more thorough that you may expect.

MBNA never produced anything to my S78 request but Hillesdens managed to get this.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?201854-Mbna-Ex-Hfc-beneficial-sold-to-Hillesdens-dlc&p=3129789&viewfull=1#post3129789

 

 

You could also ask for clarification of the current status of the account. running or terminated? if terminated, then how and by whom? if running then who is the creditor?

One of Aplins previous letters referred to banking facilities, which I have never had with Hillesdens, the DN was issued by MBNA, they do not issue TN's, as the DN states that termination happens if it is not satisfied. the OC was Beneficial Bank, then it went to HFC

 

That's an interesting but important line of questioning with 'sold debts'

 

If you do not get the answer then N244 into Court for a full reply or strike out order.

 

Your assistance is greatly appreciated, I understand how busy everyone is at this time of the year

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