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    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
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I have 2 current accounts with overdrafts, a credit card and a loan with Lloyds TSB.


Tartan Barty
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Right, I have been on a DMP for 4 years, went self-admin in Dec last year. I have 2 overdrafts with Lloyds (11 creditors in total). They have been pretty good (!) and have always accepted my proposals and haven't really harrassed me.

 

Got a phone call today from Lloyds across the water. Rang back and spoke to a UK collection rep who said my agreement had come to an end. I had sent them a proposal and I&E sheet in Dec so gave him the figures. Up until now I have made good progress in clearing the O/D balances. He said that because my monthly contribs were more than the interest on the biggest O/D they would start charging it again. So I will pay £46 a month and they will charge me £35 interest a month. He said that if the offer was below the interest amount then they would freeze it (but not indefinately) as soon as it goes above then they would charge. Can they do this??

 

Interesting to note that the loan is over double that on the O/D (£4.5k v £1.8K) yet I am paying £20 towards the loan and £46 towards the O/D are they just pulling a fast one to get more out of me???

 

Any help appreciated

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have you as yet send Lloyds a SAR to find out if the debts are composed of unlawful charges which may reduce the debt?

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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That might be the best way, although my husband sent one for all 3, detailing the account numbers, as it constitutes all of the information they held on him and they only charged him £10 for the lot.

All help is merely my opinion only - please seek legal advice if you need to as I am only qualified in SEN law.

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  • 2 months later...

Right I have sent a certain creditor a CCA request and a SAR request (several months apart).

 

They haven't yet complied with the CCA request and I recently received some information through which they claim is the SAR results.

 

Some of the information they have sent for the CCA request isn't in the SAR request yet does contain my personal information.

 

Can they state that the stuff they sent through for the CCA is also part of the SAR or do they have to send everything twice where duplicated by the different acts???

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Many thanks 42, so basically the CCA and SAR are 2 separate things regardless of any overlap?

 

This what I asked for in the SAR

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal loan accounts.

Please supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history with your organisation, INCLUDING Loans and other products. Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable.

I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

-Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts with your organization.

-Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

-Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

-Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

I only got 2 things through, and none of the stuff that formed there pitiful response to my CCA request was in it.

 

Do I go to the information commissioner???

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  • 2 weeks later...

....I have CCA'd 1 DCA and 1 OC for unsecured personal loans both have sent agreements which would appear enforceable....but

 

Both statements show that even with 7 or 8 returned DD's no charges have been added. In the case of the DCA no charges seem to have been made by the OC and the DCA hasn't added a penny. This can't be right can it.

 

Do personal loan lenders (Smile and NR) add charges for returned DD's???

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  • 5 months later...

I have recently SAR'd Lloyds for 2 current accounts, a CC and a loan just to see what they have. They sent me about 40 bits of A4 in response saying they take their responsibilities seriously and have complied. Not so I said it a letter highlighting everthing that was missing. So the postie arrives at the weekend with a copy paper box (the one that has 5 reams in!) full of all my Lloyds records. All statements for every account from the day they were opened including all charges.

 

It had the loan agreement in so I went through it against the enforcability check list

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit.........Oh dear not present!!

Then the credit card 'agreement' which was my application although the T&C's were included but not on the reverse.

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.............Oh dear not present!!

So with hundreds of pounds of charges on the current accounts going back to 1991 and a loan and cc agreement that ain't worth the paper its written on I am quite happy. Just lloking forward to the next time they ring up demanding more money per month!! (oh and they are charging more interest on the loan that I am paying back!)

Happy days :-)

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For a fixed sum credit agreement, there needs to be the following:

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

What is the definition of 'the amount of credit'?

Is it the amount you borrowed, i.e. the principal sum, or is it the principal plus the interest?

Example

Loan for £5000

Interest £1200

Total credit £6200

Which is 'the amount of credit', £5000 or £6200?

Any help much appreciated

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The loan is made up of:

 

The principal sum (the amount you are borrowing - in your example £5000)

The Credit Charge (The amount of interest and charges they will apply for lending you the money - in your example £1200)

 

The Total Amount Of Credit is the combined total that they are providing

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For a fixed sum credit agreement, there needs to be the following:

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

What is the definition of 'the amount of credit'?

 

Is it the amount you borrowed, i.e. the principal sum, or is it the principal plus the interest?

 

Example

Loan for £5000

Interest £1200

Total credit £6200

 

Which is 'the amount of credit', £5000 or £6200?

 

Any help much appreciated

 

Lets clarify this

 

if they are saying that the amount of credit is £6200 then take that at face value say thank you very much and walk away

 

why?

 

Because the amount of credit is £5000 and if it is represented in any other form then it is invalid, the amount of credit cannot contain any item entering into the total charge for credit

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And that is a problem as one of my Lloyds loan agreements has the principal sum on it, the monthly amount, how many installments, the interest rate and the APR.

 

I assumed that the amount of credit was the total amount of credit and hence this agreement was missing a prescribed term but it looks like it is enforcable :(

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Ah ha

 

You have a defective credit agreement

 

it fails to set out items entering into the total charge for credit and the total amount payable

 

therefore the true cost of the borrowing is not laid out before you and the agreement is improperly executed

 

accordingly you can challenge this document and ask the court to exercise its powers under s127(1) &(2) CCA

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