Meteor Bletchley Station PCN

[philmartin57]

On the 5th May 2009 I visited Bletchley Station for the first time. I drove into the car park. It looked very new and it looked like there was still work in progress. There was no barrier, I could not see any ticket machines, I didn’t notice any tickets on other cars, there was no indication payment was required or how to pay. My assumption was that payments had been suspended while the work was in progress or it was a pay on exit. When I got back there was a £45.00 fine on my windscreen and I was not the only one. I have appealed to Meteor but this has been rejected. I’ve made a little video to illustrate my case which I am in the process of uploading on to YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.. If you have received a penalty notice at Bletchley similar to mine, I’d like to hear from you. Together we can beat this.

[Al27]

Hi Phil

 

Assuming this isn't a railway byelaw ticket (which I doubt), you're falling into the trap.

 

You just have an unenforceable invoice from a [problem] company. There is no appeals process - no private company will turn down profit.

 

No need to fight anything - just ignore them and the junkmail they will send you.

 

It's not a fine - private companies have no such powers in law. It's an invoice for alleged breach of contract. Remedy for breach of contract is damages, but they haven't lost £45 have they?

 

Look at all the other private parking threads to get your head around this con.

[crem]

As Al says, don't put yourself out. Save everything they send you but reply to nothing. If they are stupid enough to try taking you to court, only then should you bother putting "your side" to the court.

[philmartin57]

Hi Al / Crem,

Are you really saying “do nothing”? I’ve always played things straight; no late payments on loans or mortgages and on the few occasions I’ve picked up PCN’s I’ve paid them. I’m a bit of a pussy and I feel intimidated by the law and big organisations. Normally I would just give in but I feel offended. I’ve acted reasonably and responsibly and I don’t see why I should pay. Is there anything they could do to hurt me? Can they issue some kind of default notice or something that will give me a rotten credit rating or issue a County Court Summons?

[pin1onu]

Hi Al / Crem,

Are you really saying “do nothing”? I’ve always played things straight; no late payments on loans or mortgages and on the few occasions I’ve picked up PCN’s I’ve paid them. I’m a bit of a pussy and I feel intimidated by the law and big organisations. Normally I would just give in but I feel offended. I’ve acted reasonably and responsibly and I don’t see why I should pay. Is there anything they could do to hurt me? Can they issue some kind of default notice or something that will give me a rotten credit rating or issue a County Court Summons?

As you have no account they can't issue a default notice. They can issue a County Court Summons but unless they're feeling really brave they won't. Even if they do, for your credit rating to be affected, you have to lose the case (you are entitled to defend it) and not pay the judgement in the time set by the court.

 

All that said there are some solid get outs. The amount they are asking would be deemed a contractural penalty. They may also not hold sufficient rights to charge for parking in the first place. And thats just for starters.

 

This is little more than a mail based [problem]. If you had a letter from Nigeria asking for money would you pay out? Please give this drivel from Meteor the same treatment.

 

Ignore them Ignore them. Best advice we can give you.

[Al27]

Yep, do nothing.

 

Absolutely zilch.

 

The [problem] relies on the fears you have at the moment- always playing things straight, feeling intimidated, fear of court, ignorance about CCJs etc.

 

They can take the driver to court, but they don't know who that is. They only have the owner's address. Even if they took the right person to court, how could they justify £45? They haven't lost £45 and contracts/T&Cs do not work by 'if you do x, you agree to pay £xx'. Otherwise they'd make the amount £10,000, take each and every person to court and win.

 

Back to reality though and the chances of them taking anyone to court is about 0.1%. This is a mail based [problem]. Part of the [problem] is threatening you with court, CCJs and kidnapping your dog.

 

Simply ignore and they will go away after a few letters and some bits of junkmail from 'debt' collectors.

 

Re. CCJs - you would need to be taken to court, lose AND still refuse to pay.

Re. debt collectors - they are NOT bailffs, merely private companies like any otehr who merely write threatening letters. They have no powers.

 

I’m a bit of a pussy and I feel intimidated by the law and big organisations.

 

The law is on your side. They haven't got a leg to stand on.

As for 'big organisations', you're merely dealing with a little private company who have a dingy office somewhere.

 

All you have is an unenforceable invoice. Except nobody would be duped if they called it an invoice, hence why they call it a 'PCN' and go on about appeals, laws they've made up and court. Since when did your BT bill go on about appeals?!

[philmartin57]

Off Topic.

This forum has opened up a whole new area of oportunities for me take a look at this Self Ticketing | National Parking Control . Now all I need is a patch of land ...

[philmartin57]

On topic

Al27, Crem and Pin1onu I’ve been getting some ear ache from my brother in law about Credit Reference Agencies. Is there any way Meteor could give me a bad credit reference or sell a PCN to a debt collector who could do the same?

[crem]

On topic

Al27, Crem and Pin1onu I’ve been getting some ear ache from my brother in law about Credit Reference Agencies. Is there any way Meteor could give me a bad credit reference or sell a PCN to a debt collector who could do the same?

 

No!

 

Next question.

 

 

To hit your credit reference they would have to:-

 

a) take you to court (unlikely)

b) WIN! (now we're getting into fantasy land)

c) you not pay in 28 days as instructed (painful as it would be, why wouldn't you

pay if a court told you to?)

d) they go back to court for default judgement (about 3 months later, they'd get

this)

e) THEN, eventually it will show as a CCJ against you

Edited May 18, 2009 by crem

[Al27]

Re. CCJs - you would need to be taken to court, lose (or not defend) AND still refuse to pay.

 

Only Meteor could take you to court (0.1% chance). A debt collector cannot. They are utterly powerless unless they are assigned bailiffs and have a CCJ in their hand.

[patdavies]

They only have the owner's address.

 

Actually, they only have the registered keeper's address.

[Al27]

Why no 'Notice to Keeper' from councils then?

[lamma]

because for council tickets the owner is liable ! they send to the 'person appearing to be the owner'. its assumed its the RK unless disproved. DVLA does not keep owner records.

[philmartin57]

The DVLA supply information to a number of commercial organisations. Allegedly this is supposed to be sanitised to prevent the keeper’s details being disclosed. But the DVLA web site does say that these organisations can combine this data with data from elsewhere. One of the companies listed is Experian, a credit reference agency. See http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/otherbusinesses/saleofdata/vehiclecheckcompaniessaleofanonymiseddata.htm

The DVLA web site http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/AdviceOnKeepingYourVehicle/DG_4022066

List reasons why information about vehicles and their registered keepers might be released and offers a list of organisation who may obtain that information electronically http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/AdviceOnKeepingYourVehicle/DG_4022066?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=192072&Rendition=Web

One of the companies on the list is Experian.

The DVLA also provide “Approved Conditional Access”. Some companies are able to request electronic access and receive information via a secure link.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/AdviceOnKeepingYourVehicle/DG_4022067?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=118470&Rendition=Web This sounds remarkably like the scheme above. One of the organisations listed is the British Parking Association who run the “Approved Operator Scheme” http://www.britishparking.co.uk/info_page.php?id=73&info_id=21 who have access to the DVLA database. Approved operators include Meteor, Debt Recovery Plus Limited Commercial Collection Services Ltd, G24 and Newlyne. All of whom are old friends of CAG. There are also a number of companies who specialise in Number Plate Recognition.

I noticed that G24 (a car park management company) and Newlyne (a debt recovery company) have the same address, funny that!

I’m sure it is perfectly feasible that these organisations could “Legally” share information and build up huge databases on us. It’s one thing for government bodies to hold this information but for private companies … it scary!

[lamma]

perky runs a purpose built one for PPCs to share information. Welcome to PPC

[crem]

It’s one thing for government bodies to hold this information but for private companies … it scary!

 

The government are very lax at "holding" our information as they have a nasty habit of not holding on to it properly when travelling on trains, buses etc. The data they do manage to keep hold of and not loose, then then make a few quid selling to Tom, Dick and Harry.

[philmartin57]

Why would any one buy it when you can get it for free on trains?

 

What is it with "perky"? I googled Perky+Parking. Mike Perkins takes up a lot of band width! I whois'ed ppc. The registrant has a PO box at a sorting office in Wolverhampton. It just gets more interesting?

[lamma]

perky is one of the more, if not the most, shall we say 'belligerent' PPCs. his website is a hoot. Other PPCs use his arguments for reasons that cannot be discerned by logical thinkers. I think this is the origin of 'Planet Perky'. Plus he pops up, under various assumed names, now and again trolling on parking forums trotting out his well worn spiel. If, like myself and a few others, you lurk on pepipoo as a guest you will be able to find 'the pepipoo challenge'. Perky spouts on about his wins but cherry picks his victims so a challenge was issued to let him take on a non cherry picked victim (as of course if Perky is right he will win against anyone) even with the offer to take photographs. Perky has signally failed to take up the challenge which rather says everything that is needed about his 'stance'. Plus feedback from other BPA PPC members has been rather non complimentary. It seems that Perky thinks he is 'a player' and he has claimed to have legal qualifications. Reality seems to gainsay his opinion of himself but at least he has fame of a sort if that is any comfort to him.

[philmartin57]

Just a little up date.

It started in May when I couldn’t find a ticket machine to buy a £6.50 ticket. I got a “Slap and Run” (PCN) for £90.00 or £45.00 if you are quick. I now have two letters from Roxburghe Debt Collectors claiming £125.00 and two letters from Graham White Solicitors, the second forecasting an additional £142.25 in fees before they start legal action. The format of these letters is exactly the same as others posted elsewhere on CAG. Following your and others advice I’m doing nothing. Scary though!

[Al27]

2 letters from Graham is the norm. In theory you shouldn't hear from them again.

[markus_lopez]

philmartin57, how did you get on - did they leave you alone?

[philmartin57]

I haven’t heard from them but I’m not pushing my luck. I don’t park the car in any car park they control just in case the clamp or tow it.

[philmartin57]

A phone message was left for me from Graham White Solicitors asking me to call back. No contact name was left. Do I respond?

[Blagton]

A phone message was left for me from Graham White Solicitors asking me to call back. No contact name was left. Do I respond?

 

What do you think ?

 

Blagton.

[lamma]

Perhaps they are acting for the family of a Nigerian prince and need to use your bank account to get tens of millions out of the country - for which you will be be well rewarded.