ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[Valuev]

Going to take a cro-bar across the knees and lower spine to make me even think about buckling:D

 

Ive done nothing wrong so litigation, formal procedures, court orders or whatever they threaten me with means nothing to me:)

[pl1p]

right. before this goes any further with paranoid accusations of who I am and what have you, lets make this very clear. I am not anyone apart from a ****ed off person like the rest of everyone on here who (by association) has ben caught up in this nightmare erroneously.

 

As to why I may or may not know a bit about some aspects of the law.

 

I studied the data protection act 1998 as part of my "legal, Professional and Ethics" course within my masters degree of Advanced Computer Science.

 

I simply put the information on there to give some advice of what the data protection act is and how it affects everyone on here; what the obligations are to person that handle data and what their obligations are to you;

 

make of it what you will.

[numberonedon]

sorry, but that goes straight over my head as probably many people here and probably leaves us more confused:confused:.

 

Try and keep things in laymans terms for everyone to understand;)

 

well said dude

 

 

doubt he even understands shudda ezxxplained rather than copy n paste!

[xer0s]

right. before this goes any further with paranoid accusations of who I am and what have you, lets make this very clear. I am not anyone apart from a ****ed off person like the rest of everyone on here who (by association) has ben caught up in this nightmare erroneously.

 

As to why I may or may not know a bit about some aspects of the law.

 

I studied the data protection act 1998 as part of my "legal, Professional and Ethics" course within my masters degree of Advanced Computer Science.

 

I simply put the information on there to give some advice of what the data protection act is and how it affects everyone on here; what the obligations are to person that handle data and what their obligations are to you;

 

make of it what you will.

 

Well I don't see how your very verbose description of a data controller will even come close to helping the average joe? In fact I can see it has just caused even more confusion..... I'll leave that with you btw I applaud you on your masters from ACS, did andy help you with any spellings?

Edited June 9, 2010 by xer0s

[pl1p]

Data controllers

 

A data controller is the person who determines the purposes for which, and the manner in which, any personal data is, or is likely to be, processed. In other words, you will be a data controller if the processing of personal data is undertaken for your benefit and you decide what personal data should be processed and why. A typical example of a data controller is an employer.

Personal data

 

Personal data means data which relates to a living individual who can be identified from that data or from that data and other information which is in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller. For example, most organisations will process personal data relating to employees, customers, suppliers and business contacts. These individuals are referred to in the Act as 'data subjects'.

 

Processing

 

The Act applies when personal data is processed or is to be processed by a computer,

 

(YOUR IP WAS LEASED TO YOU FOR THE DURATION OF YOU INTERNET CONNECTION COVERING THE TIME IN QUESTION OR ANY TIME FOR THAT MATTER. THIS COULD BE ARGUED TO CONSTITUTE PERSONAL INFORMATION BY WHICH TO DIRECTLY IDENTIFY A PERSON - HENCE PERSONAL DATA TO WHICH THE ACT COULD APPLY)

 

 

or is recorded or to be recorded in a structured manual filing system. There are other types of system covered by the Act, but these are the most common.

Whether or not manual files are covered by the Act is not always an easy question to answer. To be covered:

 

• there must be a set of information relating to individuals,
  
• which is structured either by reference to individuals or by criteria relating to individuals,
  
• in such a way that specific information relating to particular individuals is readily accessible. If your manual files fall within this definition, you will have to comply with the Act.
  

The term 'processing' covers virtually any use which can be made of personal data, from collecting the data, storing it and using it to destroying it.

 

(IF YOUR PERSONAL DATA - IP ADDRESS - IS COLLECTED AND USED (IN ANY REGARD) IT COULD BE ARGUED THAT THIS FORMS A TYPE OF PROCESSING - TO WHICH THE ACT WOULD THEN APPLY)

 

In order to comply with the Act, a data controller must comply with the following eight principles:

 

1. The data should be processed fairly and lawfully and may not be processed unless the data controller can satisfy one of the conditions for processing set out in the Act.
   
2. Data should be obtained only for specified and lawful purposes.
   
3. Data should be adequate, relevant and not excessive.
   
4. Data should be accurate
   
5. and, where necessary, kept up to date.
   
6. Data should not be kept longer than is necessary for the purposes for which it is processed.
   
7. Data should be processed in accordance with the rights of the data subject under the Act.
   
8. Appropriate technical and organisational measures should be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.
   
9. Data should not be transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data
   

 

(IN REGARDS TO THE ABOVE WHICH IS IN BOLD

 

IF IT IS ARGUED THAT YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION HAS BEEN GATHERED/PROCESSED IT MEANS THAT THE INFORMATION RELATING TO YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE ACCURATE, PROCESSED UNDER THE RIGHTS OF THE ACT and the Appropriate technical and organisational measures should be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data)

 

Purposes of processing

 

Data subjects must be given information about the purposes of the processing.

 

(IT COULD BE ARGUED THAT IF YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION IS TO BE PROCESSED YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD PRIOR TO THE PROCESSING)

 

This information is generally provided in the form of a data protection notice, which can be given in application forms, terms and conditions, by telephone or on a website. The information to be set out in a data protection notice must include a description of:

 

• details of the data controller;
  
• the purposes for the processing, including any non-obvious purposes (e.g. cross-mailing, host mailing);
  
• details of any recipients of the personal data (e.g. other companies within the group) and their purposes;
  

(IT COULD BE ARGUED THAT THE NOTIFICATION THAT MAY NEED TO HAVE BEEN SENT PRIOR TO THE PROCCESSING OF YOUR DATA MUST INCLUDE THE ABOVE)

 

• an opt-out / opt-in to marketing, as appropriate;
  
• a description of the methods to be used for contacting individuals for marketing purposes (e.g. telephone, fax, SMS, email and/or mail); and
  
• any other information that is necessary to make the processing fair (e.g. whether it is obligatory to provide all the information requested or whether provision of some of that information is optional).
  

Rights of individuals

 

Data controllers must give the following rights to data subjects:

 

• the right of access to his or her personal data;
  
• the right to object to certain processing causing substantial damage or distress;
  

(WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW WOULD BE CLASSED AS SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE - DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER FOR THE ALLEGED PORN INFRINGEMENTS or DISTRESS BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL OF POSSIBLE ERRONEOUS LITIGATION )

 

• the right to object to automated decision taking; and
  

(IT COULD BE ARGUED THAT YOUR DATA APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN, AT SOME POINT, HANDLED BY AUTOMATED SOFTWARE EG. THE DATA EXTRACTION TECHNIQUE USED TO OBTAIN IT)

 

• the right to object to direct marketing.
  

 

 

My OPINIONS/INTERPRETATION as ABOVE IN RED. NOT FACT, NOt LEGAL ADVICE. OPINION/INTERPRETATION

[xer0s]

My OPINIONS/INTERPRETATION as ABOVE IN RED. NOT FACT, NOt LEGAL ADVICE. OPINION/INTERPRETATION

 

All I stated was your post just confused the average user. I see your a man with experience so it would be more beneficial to explain your posts to us mere mortals to avoid any confusion. k thanks

[pl1p]

All I stated was your post just confused the average user. I see your a man with experience so it would be more beneficial to explain your posts to us mere mortals to avoid any confusion. k thanks

 

 

Jesus was mortal too. He changed parts of the world.

[xer0s]

Jesus was mortal too. He changed parts of the world.

 

I agree but I don't expect to see Acs turning water into wine anytime soon... then again they are turning paper into pounds so I guess ACS are divine beings

[pl1p]

define DIVINE

 

devoted to or in the service or worship of a deity

 

DEFINE:deity

 

any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force

 

 

DEFINE:spiritual being:

 

an incorporeal being believed to have powers to affect the course of human events

 

 

DEFINE:incorporeal

 

incorporeality - immateriality: the quality of not being physical; not consisting of matter

 

 

 

Satan (Hebrew: הַשָׂטָן ha-Satan ("the accuser"); Persian "sheytân"; Arabic: الشيطان al-Shaitan ("the adversary") - both from the Semitic root: Ś-Ṭ-N) is an embodiment of antagonism that originates from the Abrahamic religions, Judeo-Christian and Islamic religions) chief spirit of evil and adversary of God; tempter of mankind; master of Hell

[tp123]

Data controllers [...] A data controller [...]

 

An excellent post and an area I had planned to explore. It is my understanding that as "Data Subjects" we have the right under the Data Protection Act, to make a formal request (Subject Access Request?) to the Data Controller - in the case of ACS Law, Mr Crossley as the Sole Principle, to disclose any data he holds on us. I wander if this would also apply to the company(s) used obtain the IP addresses because it handles “data which relates to a living individual who can be identified from that data”

 

I find the following points from your post particularly interesting;

 

Data protection notice – I have not seen this on their website and although we already know the purpose for the processing, I would be interested to see if it discloses “details of any recipients of the personal data (e.g. other companies within the group) and their purposes”

 

Rights of individuals - the right to object to certain processing causing substantial damage or distress.

 

I would be interested if anybody has made a formal request...

[tp123]

Just a quick msg to pl1p..... are u Terence in disguise? My spidey senses tingle when you speak. You display way too much knowledge in such a short period of time.... but then again sfw, do what you gotta do it's all good

 

Terrence Tsang left ACS Law about a month ago...

[pl1p]

Terrence Tsang left ACS Law about a month ago...

 

 

and im much better looking.

[tp123]

and im much better looking.

 

Lol. Well, that wouldn't be hard!

 

Congrats on your Masters, I'm only half way through a Bsc in ICT and finding it tough.

[abcd1234zzz]

I spoke to someone from Lawdit Solicitors the other day (as I have still been freakin out over the whole situation) and I asked how many times do they need to write to ACS (the LoD) before ACS back off...and the solicitor said that they'll send off the LoD on behalf of client and then ACS may respond saying that they're sending a template and cannot be accepted (!) and then if neccessary, a 2nd letter is sent and ACS stop chasing after that.

[pl1p]

An excellent post and an area I had planned to explore. It is my understanding that as "Data Subjects" we have the right under the Data Protection Act, to make a formal request (Subject Access Request?) to the Data Controller - .

 

 

Subject access request

 

Criminal offences

A data controller who persistently breaches the Act and has been served with an enforcement notice can be prosecuted for failing to comply with a notice. This offence carries a maximum penalty of a £5,000 fine in the magistrates' court and an unlimited fine in the Crown Court.

Notification offences: unless exempt a data controller can be prosecuted if they fail to notify us about data processing they are doing or of any changes to that processing. Failure to notify is a strict liability offence. Being unaware of the law is not an excuse.

 

Examples

In March 2009 Mr Thusita Weerakoon of Weerakoon Solicitors was fined £100 and ordered to pay £717.05 costs for failing to notify as a data controller under the Data Protection Act. Ian Kerr of Droitwich was fined £5,000 for failing to notify as a data controller. We investigated Mr Kerr after finding that he was running a secret operation to vet construction workers for employment in the industry.

 

Unlawful obtaining or disclosing of personal information: it is a criminal offence to knowingly or recklessly obtain, disclose or procure the disclosure of personal information, without the consent of the data controller.

 

 

Subject Access Requests - Can have exemptions eg. If a CRIME has been commited. However, since this may be CIVIL the exemption may not apply

 

 

Would be interesting to see what would happen if EVERYONE made a subject acces request at the same time.....

[8of9]

Answering some questions:

ACS law's clients are the legal rights holders for the P2P distribution of the work. Copyright ownership can be broken down, so different people or groups may own the rights for different types of distribution.

 

One issue that was raised some time ago was that P2P distribution of pR0n titles is illegal as the vendor needs to be licensed - and Digidogy/ logistep have no such license. Therefore they'd be on pretty shaky moral ground in court.

 

Regarding why ACS and their clients are not demanding that torrents be removed - why should they? If the torrents were not there then their revenue stream would dry up - remember that they only own P2P distribution rights. They cannot profit from legal sales of any of these works!

 

 

What would the P2P distribution rights be?

[tp123]

I spoke to someone from Lawdit Solicitors the other day (as I have still been freakin out over the whole situation) and I asked how many times do they need to write to ACS (the LoD) before ACS back off...and the solicitor said that they'll send off the LoD on behalf of client and then ACS may respond saying that they're sending a template and cannot be accepted (!) and then if neccessary, a 2nd letter is sent and ACS stop chasing after that.

 

Thats good to know as thats the stage I'm at!

 

Cheers for the post

[tp123]

Subject access request

[...]

Would be interesting to see what would happen if EVERYONE made a subject acces request at the same time.....

 

...now that sounds like a plan!

[abcd1234zzz]

You know reading back at the posts, it is quite beyond me how a company like ACS should still be allowed to function? It just makes me so angry...but i'm still s**t scared

 

I am suffering from loss of appetite and I am not sleeping well since i received the letter. I have to confess that after speaking to Lawdit, they recommended that if I were to settle then the sum should be renegotiated and a firm letter sent still denying liability...I am tempted to do this as the thought of anxiously awaiting for the next letter to arrive really makes me feel ill.

 

tp123, I know Lawdit only need to send 2 letters before it stops, I guess it's because they're pros and know their stuff?...so for us (who try our best at writing the LoDs) it would take a few more exchange of letters? Btw I've never had to deal with solicitors before but they charge a lot per hour, init!!!

[abcd1234zzz]

Also, in the 2nd letter from ACS, do they normally increase the settlement fee? Or do they just be mean and threaten you more?

[8of9]

As I see it, ACS procedure is as follows:

1) Identify copyrighted file ID/ Tracker.

2) Use automated harvesting program to gather IP addresses

3) Identify ISP of these addresses.

4) Send the Data to ISP's, stating intention of applying to the court for an order to reveal the identity of IP address and asking them if they would oppose application.

5) Obtain order from court for ISP's, but only the ones who will not oppose the application.

6) ISP reveals IP address identity to ACS.

7) Get some paper in the photocopier!

In the mean time, ISP does not inform IP user that this request has been made

How does this lie with the Data Protection Act?

Edited June 9, 2010 by 8of9
Another point

[tp123]

 

I have to confess that after speaking to Lawdit, they recommended that if I were to settle then the sum should be renegotiated and a firm letter sent still denying liability...I am tempted to do this as the thought of anxiously awaiting for the next letter to arrive really makes me feel ill.

 

I know what you mean - I found it helpful to keep in the back of my mind the fact that they have NEVER taken anyone to court. Also there is a lot of support for the cessation of ACS Laws activities, from groups like this, the Media and as high up as the House of Lords.

 

tp123, I know Lawdit only need to send 2 letters before it stops, I guess it's because they're pros and know their stuff?...so for us (who try our best at writing the LoDs) it would take a few more exchange of letters? Btw I've never had to deal with solicitors before but they charge a lot per hour, init!!!

 

You could be right and yes solicitors do charge through the nose!

 

Also, in the 2nd letter from ACS, do they normally increase the settlement fee? Or do they just be mean and threaten you more?

 

It seems to be the norm for them to increase the fee, although 2.3 of the Code of Practice for Pre-Action Conduct states

 

"They should be [...] However, their preparation should not place an unreasonable or disproportionate burden on either party in terms of cost."

[8of9]

...now that sounds like a plan!

 

It would also be interesting to see what data they really had, other than that divulged to them by our ISP's. Perhaps that is why they are apparently sending out questionaires for people to give them what they are missing!

As ACS Law must be a "large and well respected law" firm using the "Law" to make a legitimate living then a mass request for this information could overload their resources (and they might have to buy another photocopier!)

Sounds a good idea but does an application of this sort apply in these cirumstances. If you make such an application are they obliged to reply and if so what time frame are you looking at.

Could be a tactic to delay current proceedings until the SRA, or someone, finally puts an end to all this.

[randomuser]

You know reading back at the posts, it is quite beyond me how a company like ACS should still be allowed to function? It just makes me so angry...but i'm still s**t scared

 

I am suffering from loss of appetite and I am not sleeping well since i received the letter. I have to confess that after speaking to Lawdit, they recommended that if I were to settle then the sum should be renegotiated and a firm letter sent still denying liability...I am tempted to do this as the thought of anxiously awaiting for the next letter to arrive really makes me feel ill.

 

tp123, I know Lawdit only need to send 2 letters before it stops, I guess it's because they're pros and know their stuff?...so for us (who try our best at writing the LoDs) it would take a few more exchange of letters? Btw I've never had to deal with solicitors before but they charge a lot per hour, init!!!

I am so sorry to hear you are suffering from loss of appetite and you can't sleep well because of this letter. That is just not fair. To use bullying tactics to scare people like this into paying money for something they have not done...well how it can still be legal is beyond me.

 

I got one of these letters this week and I can tell you now I am sleeping very well. I would never let something like this interfere with my life, it wouldn't be fair and it isn't worth it. Why should they be allowed to ruin your life when you have done nothing wrong? I know it sounds hard but try not to worry. After reading all the information on here it seems quite clear to me that as long as you follow the procedure, you should be fine. We are all in this together and there is clearly a lot of support from people here. There is plenty of hard evidence to show that things will be fine as long as you send the LOD and do not pay as we know this in some respects is you also admitting to commiting the crime.

 

Try to calm down and relax, they want you to worry and be scared as they want you to pay. Therefore you need to do exactly the opposite. Send the LOD. Carry on with life like normal. Don't let ACS win!

[tp123]

As ACS Law must be a "large and well respected law" firm using the "Law" to make a legitimate living then a mass request for this information could overload their resources (and they might have to buy another photocopier!)

 

Lol!

 

Sounds a good idea but does an application of this sort apply in these cirumstances. If you make such an application are they obliged to reply and if so what time frame are you looking at.

 

As far as I am aware it applies in all circumstances unless the company has an excemption. As i am not sure for what reasons a company would be granted an exemption (yet) I am not sure if ACS Law would have one.

 

Could be a tactic to delay current proceedings until the SRA, or someone, finally puts an end to all this.

 

With the amount of money this guy must be drawing in, I suspect he would just employ someone to handle all the requests! I do hope the SRA pull their finger out...