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    • Thank you for the letter, that makes things a lot clearer. So it's a statutory demand rather than self-certifying. See what @Man in the middle thinks but to me, it seems as if the lawyer has a good strategy and seems to have covered all the bases. HB  
    • Could you post up the letter, with your personal info and their reference covered up, please? It should say Letter of Claim, but let's have a look just in case. HB
    • I know dx, a lot of it was my partner and how she felt about it. I also appear to be addicted to my credit file being clean. I still worry for my partner she has too much on as it is, but I am ensuring I manage both of ours so She can forget about. i guess in terms of time I bet masses are defaulting with this economy as it is right now and high interest rates might be the only thing going for me right now. I guess  I’ll find out
    • Please see below for an extract from the letter more about my case. You have been convicted of two matters of failing to give driver details linked to two speeding offences and been disqualified in your absence. You confirmed that you did not receive the court documentation and the first you knew about the cases was on 3/6/24. As you can make a statutory declaration it is possible that we will be able to persuade the police to accept pleas to either or both of the speeding offences as they were committed within a very short space of time and withdraw the two fail to give driver details offences as normally if you plead to one or other of the speeding or fail to give driver details the prosecution will withdraw the other related offence. If successful you would not face a totting ban. In respect of the speeding offences, it could be argued they were committed on one occasion due to the proximity of the time and location and we may be able to persuade the prosecution to drop one of the speeding offences. You are technically guilty of all the offences because you accept it was you driving when the speeding offences were committed and that you did not update your change of address with the leasing company when it was your responsibility. If the prosecution will not withdraw the two failures to give driver details offences, you will face a totting ban but will be able to put forward an exceptional hardship argument. This  may or may not go ahead at the court hearing date, so we need to prepare for all eventualities. As a safeguard we have lodged the appeal and applied to suspend your ban pending appeal due to the time limit for being able to automatically appeal without getting leave of the Judge. The court have dealt with the matter very quickly and have actually listed your matter for an application to suspend the disqualification pending appeal on the above-mentioned date. We could actually use this date to make the statutory declaration in court having explained the situation to the magistrates and then see if the prosecution will agree to accept pleas to one or both of the speeding offences as a way of resolving the matter without the need for you to put forward an exceptional hardship argument. It is possible the case would need to be adjourned so that we can make those representations, or the court may want to go ahead and hear the exceptional hardship argument. The outcome of your case is always at the discretion of the Court.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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the only signiture is on the application form would the agreement on the back make a differerence even if no signiture

 

no signiture on first aggreement

 

no signiture on upgraded card agreement

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For it to be enforceable there has to be certain prescribed terms included within the 'four corners' of the signed document, front or reverse. These are; %APR, credit limit, repayment terms etc. If those aren't on the last document you posted it is unenforceable.

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thanks for your help

does that mean it would be unenforcable by a court

 

and what is the chance of them coming up with a fully signed agreement i think they sent quite a bit so would be inclined to think that is all they have they did take well over 4 weeks to get it to me

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That's OK. You could send them this to see what their reply is;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

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I have been reading up on this all day, still confused, if post 24 were on the back of the original application form would it be enforcable

 

Sorry have been worrying all day and night

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

 

iwrote to tpf to request a more legible copy, i gave them a time limit to reply. I have not had a response.

 

My problem is that my OH does not know about this debt he would go ape. if i send the indispute letter i will then start to get calls which means he will then find out.

i am paying the min payment and have not defaulted but cannot keep it up much longer.

 

Should i send a letter pointing out what is wrong with the stuff they sent and asking for clarification regarding wheather they do have more than my app form.

i would like to make a full and final offer, so dont want to go though months of correspondance

 

would welcome your opinions

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Just to say been going through old paperwork and have come across card carriers.

Not the first one ever, but the one posted up in an earlier post from a replacement card

 

Its different mine is interspersed with info on card insurance etc, theirs seems to be missing this bit

 

Do you think they were trying to hoodwink me into believing it was complient, surly if it has info regarding insurance then would this not make it unenforceable due to having stuff other than just prescribed terms?

Obviously i know the card carrier makes no difference anyway, but it does make you wonder

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  • 3 weeks later...

hi sent a letter asking for clearer documents and asking for info regarding the back of application this was sent 7th april no reply

 

sent a letter 7th may stating that since they had not replied assumed they did not have an enforceable agreement so offered a full and final settlement gave them to last friday to reply no received one

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next payment not due until mid june

 

have not got any defaults yet but finance are dire since crunch

 

trying damage limitation so need to know something before mid june

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received letter today we have complied etc with sections78

 

we do not consider ac to be indispute etc

 

i asked for a clearer copy of app form and for a copy of back of app form nothing sent. i also pointed out that the stuff they sent was not enforceable they say they will not entered into any further correspondence regarding alleged CCa breaches

 

i would like to send out a strong letter saying why the a application form is not enforceable any ideas

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2u7t9g1.gif

 

Make a complaint to your local trading standards & the OFT with regards to their harassment and threats, they are in clear breach of OFT guidelines & CPUT;

 

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/DebtCollectionComplaintForm.DOC

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Contact us

 

[email protected]

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices

 

tel: 020 7211 5823

Debt collection guidance - Final guidance on unfair business practices - oft664

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