2 defaults Egg and Vodaphone - Default hell!!

[Sarrahk]

HI, Just seeking some advice,

 

A recent copy of my credit report showed 2 defaults Egg and Vodaphone which are causing me considerable trouble! I cannot even open a new current account as a result!

 

A couple of years ago i was forced to go into a debt management plan with the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) due to financial mess i was in and i have been in my debt plan now for over 2 years and it has been fantastic.

 

I have however noted that Egg had put a default on my report even though for the last 18 months they have received high payments from me well above minumim levels (though in fairness i did for first couple months pay less than minimum by agreement with them through CCCS). When i called Egg about this last week they have very kindly agreed to now remove the default entirely so my report will show i have never defaulted because i am paying well now and the debt is half repaid.This was of course gret news for me..so optimistically i attempted to roll on and try to tackle the next one

 

In relation to the second default, it was vodaphone (a mere £120!) and i had in fact settled this debt in full with the agency last year, vodaphone are however refusing to remove this default at all. Incidentally i do not even recall ever having a default notice from them, just a letter form their debt collectors!

 

is there any resolution to this nightmare? I have read the helpful "how to remove default notice thread" and I am considering trying this with Vodaphone?

 

Any thoughts most welcome.

 

Incidentally does an "arrangement to pay" on a credit report presumably also cause difficulties which is what I have with Northern Rock

 

lady of Limited Means Sarrah K x

[mutzi]

See here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/11659-how-get-your-default.html

[Sarrahk]

thannks i have had a look at this and may try it with vodaphone

[skinswins]

Let us know how you get on!!

 

What letter you sending cus the one on the templates site is aimed at banks is it not? Vodafone don't work under the cca do they??

 

All the best,

[Sarrahk]

oooohhh i dont know. I was just going to use the template letter on site.. can anyone help me on that???

[Neo]

I think the best way to get this one removed is to write a letter to them asking them to provide you with true, signed copies of the following;

 

The original credit agreement

The Original Default notice

 

If they can't provide either of then the default is illegal because of different reasons, so you need to post when you get a reply.

 

I will copy/paste an example letter i wrote if you would like to use it.?

 

It has worked twice for me...

 

Neo

[Sarrahk]

That would be fantastic if you could Neo, thank you. i thnk I may have a chance with Vodaphone as when I spoke to them on the telephone, they could not provide me with the account history as they recently took over Singlepoint whom my original account was through and so have lost the info... i am hopeful..

[Neo]

Date

Account Number/Reference:

Dear Sir/Madam,

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Expedia, Experian & CallCredit [Delete as appropriate], I am concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against an account I held with you.

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 cheque to cover the statutory fee.

2. Please also supply me with a signed, true and certified copy of the original default notice.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 14 days. If you are unable to provide this data then I require all adverse information to be removed completely, including any defaults that may have been applied. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

Yours faithfully,

You

Please remember to put the cheque in for £1.00!

This letter has worked for next Directory and Natwest Credit Cards

[Sarrahk]

thanks thats great, I tried to give you a reputation comment Neo but it wont let me!

[Neo]

Hey no problem, keep us informed to your progress and I have a letter 2 which i have used in case they come back and play dumb, etc.

 

Good luck

[Sarrahk]

thanks neo, will keep you posted.

[Sarrahk]

do i need to amend the wording of this letter to reflect the fact thta I have settled the account in full do you think?

[Neo]

Hiya,

 

I would leave it as is, because that fact is irrelevant really.

 

I have had a default wiped off mty credit record last week using this letter. Nice

[SurlyBonds]

Okay people... you're all looking at lots of paperwork (which is fine), but there's a little nugget of shiny stuff embedded deep within the bowels of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, a little known fact about the Data Protection Act and credit reference agencies and automated searches:

 

You are legally entitled, under Part II, Section 12 (1) of the Data Protection Act to insist that no agency can use your data for automated purposes including... and I quote from the said Act...[drumroll]...

 

(1) An individual is entitled at any time, by notice in writing to any data controller, to require the data controller to ensure that no decision taken by or on behalf of the data controller which significantly affects that individual is based solely on the processing by automatic means of personal data in respect of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct. ...[tada...takes deep bow]

 

Okay, what does it mean in English...

Whilst credit ref agencies can store the data, you (and only you...not them... YOU, the "individual"/data subject/etc) can decide if you want that data to be included in any automated processes which includes the automatic reference transactions that banks and Co. send through for ref checks.

 

You may, if you so wish, ...(and the agencies can't do diddly-squat about it)... insist that your data is excluded from the automation process, and that it can only be utilised within manual reference purposes... which by the way, none of the agencies have the ability to process.

 

If you think I'm joking, I've done it for all three of the ref agencies, and they've all had to remove all my data from the automation process because I threatened them with a Court Order if they failed to do so.

 

So, what happens in reality. Well, maybe try what I did...

 

1) Send them a recorded delivery letter along these lines...

"Dear Sirs,

 

This is a formal notice, served under the provisions of Chapter 29 of the Data Protection Act 1998 in requesting that you conform to my demand for a change in the manner in which you hold and process subject data about me.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Schedule II, Section 12 (1) of the said Act allows all data subjects the right to insist on the removal of any and all data from automated processes in repsect of matters relating to them. I have reproduced that clause for your information, in case you do not have a copy to hand:

[insert clause from above in quotes].

 

You will note the exact language of the Act, in that such a request may be made in relation to a number of different reference checks "which significantly affects that individual", and the Acts specifically cites

"credit worthiness" as one of those examples.

 

Recent checks on my file have caused severe complications, and now "significantly affect" my everyday life, and that of my family. An additional point to note is that issues of this nature that adversely affect "normal family life" are in breach of the Human Rights Act.

 

Therefore, you have seven days from receipt of this letter to remove all such data from your system where it is referenced and processed via automated processes. You will obviously need to transfer it to your manual process system and alert your customers that my data can no longer be searched via an automatic process.

 

I look forward to receiving your confirmation that the above change has been made to my file at the end of that seven day period.

 

To that end, I look forward to receiving your confirmation by close of business of ...[date it nine days hence to give them time].

 

Yours, etc"

 

I did this to Experian, Equifax and myCallCredit last month. Equifax argued the toss initially, then I issued an N1 Court Form against them, and as soon as they got that they capitulated. By the way, they also had to pay the Court fee.

 

Of course, they don't actually have anything on their system that can manage a manual intervention on a credit check, so they have to bar all the data from being read.

 

The other tact is the contractual issue, and this is even easier.

 

Background, last year I cancelled my contract (after 2 years) with Orange to switch to another telecom. Orange (conveniently) forgot to cancel my contract and tried charging me up to 3 months of additional monthly tariffs.

I refused to pay, Orange got arsey, so I threatened them with a counter if they tried the recovery route, with copies of my letters and the Rec Deliv numbers of my cancellation letters.

A letter from them the next week... "blah, blah, as a gesture of goodwill, we have cancelled the £30 owed...etc.". OWED!!!! I'll give them firkin "owed" - cheeky bar stewards. Anyway, after I calmed down...

 

I noted about a month later that Orange had put three months of unpaid bills onto my credit files, so I had an "Up to 3 months late" marker on my file which is just about up there with a CCJ or default. I told them to adjust the data, they refused, so I sent the following within letters to Experian, Equifax and MyCallCredit:

 

"...As to the Orange account staying on my file for six years, you should note that this was not a defaulted account at all. I gave Orange notice to switch to another provider and they didn't process my cancellation in time. I then refused to pay the months after my notice of cancellation. They have now recognised this by asking all the agencies to remove the alledged late payment information..."

The agencies got hold of Orange who then cleared the 1,2 and 3 markers BUT left the account as default/settled.

 

The agencies all wrote back saying that they could keep such a reference on the file for up to six years.

 

I then sent the following to all three:

 

"... As to the Orange account staying on my file for six years, you should note that this was not a defaulted account at all and, even if it was, you are no longer permitted to hold such data on my file.

 

Upon signing my contract with Orange, I only gave Orange my permission to log my account dealings whilst the contract was in place. If you read the wording of that contract it states quite clearly that I "give permission for Orange to supply credit reference agencies with information relating to the conduct and payment history of my account." I neither agreed to any other purposes, nor did I agree for that clause to include the term "in perpetuity".

 

Additionally, the contract also states that "this agreement may be cancelled by either party in writing".

 

That contract is now (very) cancelled (and has been for some time now) and therefore they have no signed mandate or permission to instruct you to retain or store data on me.

 

Schedule I, Part 1 "The Principles" of the Act states, quite clearly in Clause 5:

 

"5. Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes."

 

So, you will kindly remove the entire record, or I will issue a Formal Notice on this matter. If you fail to comply with that Notice, then I will apply for an N1 County Court Order against you, which will result in you accruing Court fees and any other legal expenses and disbursements. This will also lead to a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office as to your suitability to hold a Data Protection licence when you are clearly holding data that is no longer relevant to the account, the account information provider or the data subject, and is being held after a contract has been terminated, by whatever means, whether by default or cancellation."

 

The entry was removed within two days.

 

So, my friends, we have a few extra strings to our bow on this front, go spread the gospel...

[bongobaz]

xr537

 

so does this mean that you can get credit if you got a bad credit record by using the above letter???

[SurlyBonds]

I've no idea about whether you can get credit, what it simply means is that you can get all credit data removed from automated purposes... the bank that you are applying to may get a nil result if your file has been removed from the 'automated' system.

 

and secondly, use your contract to get any adverse data removed after the contract has been cancelled, terminated or voided. If they send you a letter along the lines of "we consider the account in default and have terminated the contract, etc."

 

...then my argument is (and was what I used) that they have nullified your permission to supply credit reference data.

 

I didn't actually have a bad credit file, just lots of silly annoying bits of data that I was getting fed up with.

 

By the way, do actually check that the contract does state that they will provide data to ref agencies... I have heard of two that didn't, and the persons affected issued a formal complaint against the companies involved for distributing their data withour permission, which is a criminal offence, and got compensation!!

 

Basically, if everyone in the UK refused to have their data processed automatically and chose the opt-out clause (that hardly anyone knows you can use)... how would the reference agencies cope???

[bongobaz]

so how would a bank of credit card company look at a credit report that was nil???

good or bad??

[Sarrahk]

ok this sounds very clever but i am very confused... does this mean that defaults can be removed altogether or just that no one can find out about them??!!

 

bongobaz said:

so how would a bank of credit card company look at a credit report that was nil???

good or bad??

 

good question.. what response would be bank etc have when they tried to do a search of your credit file??

[SurlyBonds]

Credit applications are based on individual organisations' view of the credit score which, in turn, is based on the information provided by the agencies.

 

How one bank or institution wishes to process the result is up to them - however, this thread was, I believe, a discussion about ways in which to remove default entries. The examples I have given were two methods used by me which worked. Whether it would affect someone elses rating in the same manner I don't know and don't profess to guess at. Maybe you could use method two (what I call the 'expired' accounts way) to start cleaning up your file.

 

All I will say is that having removed two accounts that were in default, and then removing all historic accounts completely, has not affected my ability to get credit, and have just taken out two more phone accounts. However, that should also be viewed in the context that I also have a lot of the other 'plus' factors that are taken into account when credit scoring applications, namely marital status, 2 dependants, job type, length of employment, salary band, time at residence, homeowner, etc. All these, and more, are used in the overall score calculation.

 

My response was simply to help Sarrahk look at ways to remove (what she considered were) unfair and defaulted data entries - I'm not going to get into a long discussion about credit scoring, as that is whole area in itself, simply because nearly all organisations score the results differently.

 

In summary, use a combination of all the methods on these forums, try the 'where's my default notice' route, if that fits better. If you're in a position where you've nothing to lose, go the route suggested above.

[Neo]

xr537,

 

Genius I must say, I was looking at the same sections in the DPA, but couldn;t work out a way to apply them. I think the questions on all our minds are:

 

a) Have you applied for credit since you have 'cleared' your records,

b) Have you checked your credit records since? What does it show, just blank or have the simply made the adverse info 'good'

c) Finally, do you know if your credit records still exist?

 

Thanks

[SurlyBonds]

In response to the above three questions:

a) Yes - took out two more mobile contracts last month for the family and both went through fine. Also, changed credit card provider and credit check was fine. Also, had a job contract credit check undertaken (I work within secure industries) and that came back okay.

b) Yes - entries just show as old "no-activity" entries. The two former default accounts were removed altogether

c) Yes, credit records still exist on their computers - I can log in online to them. However, if I do an automated score on them, it doesn't work.

[Neo]

Thank you for your answers, most appreciated.

 

Last two thing si promise... just working out whether to take the plunge!

 

Firstly, I noticed that orange put some entires on your credit record AFTER you had changed it... does this mean thaty entries can still be placed on it (I would want this to happen to gain a good credit history)

 

Secondly, THe credit accounts you have applied for, were any of them instant, online decisions?

 

That is some awesome information you have provided us with which i expect credit reference agencies would rather us not have...

 

Thanks again

[SurlyBonds]

The Orange issue was actaully in the reverse order - my post was merely highlighting the two methods.

In the case of Orange, I had them change the 1,2,3 markers early this year. I took the A-Bomb "stop automating my data" approach with all three more recently... apologies if the post gives the impression of reverse chronology!

 

The telcom application was instant online - I was there in the shop as they tapped it in.

 

The credit card app was a paper application sent to their head office for approval. Presumably that was done online - they never phoned me up to say that they had to seek my permission for a manual decision.

 

The job application was an online process and the printout was later sent to me.

 

I actually discovered this little gem on a recent course that I was doing about the Data Protection Act and medical records, for a contract that my company is involved with.

 

The course leader was a Data Protection Act guru and when we went through section 12, the words "credit worthiness" hit me between the eyes. When I asked him if that mean that credit agencies can also be barred from automatic process decisioning, he smiled and said "Yes, but not many people in this country know about it".

 

After the course, I was straight home and powered up Word...

 

"Dear Mssrs Equifax/Experian/MyCallCredit...

This time the boot is on the other foot and I am hereby giving you a darn good kicking...

 

or words to that effect...

[Tinkerbelle]

Love it

[Neo]

xr537,

 

Great writing and great work.

 

One thing I note which could also work is, if I decide to take the plunge (I have the right to from the DPA) then if I decide to change my mind, I equally have the right to change back to automated decisions?

 

Sounds good if that is the case!