Marstons Called on friend for old no car tax fine

[moving on..]

A friend has just called me in distress at finding marstons bailiffs on her door step.she opened the door and the bailiff put his foot in the door , she then called the police.

 

they said they have a warrant of distress from milton Keynes.they say its a Criminal fine for car tax non payment i think.

 

They also said they had a lot of parking fines that they were going to make her pay there and then (over £3,000).

 

I said they needed a court enforcement and they said they had warrants for them and would fax them to the police that day.

 

The police came, and suggested the bailiffs enter..they did she offered £500 on a fine of £1,004.The warrant was issued on 28th september.

 

As i was on the phone i could hear what was going on and desperately reading on here to try and help her..

 

Marstons would only take full payment..and now she has gone to borrow the money otherwise they would take her goods.

 

I spoke to the bailiff because i said he should not have put his foot in the door..I wanted her to get confirmation that he did this..(he would not sign anything)..(not sure if it is relevant).

 

Im sitting here shaking so goodness knows what my friend is going through

What can she do now..?

 

I advised her to complain and then to fill out a N245 form for the other fines?.

 

.she has buried her head in the sand i feel and to make matters worse her ex partner is wanted for arrest for assaulting her..so i can understand her distress and just hoping all would go away.

 

I would help her with forms if CAG could help me !!

kind regards

Jane.

[tomtubby]

Your friend should have received quite a lot of letters from the Magistrates Court for these fines and could have simply completed the necessary Means Form and paid these debts back at a nominal rate per month. This would have avoided this action.

 

It is VITALLy important to see copies of the Distress Warrants. This is because they expire after 6 months and must be returned back to the court. However, just yesterday from enquiries made with our office we were able to establish that 3 Warrants had expired and I personally spoke with a Magistrates Court today that confirmed that their relevant bailiff company ( I will not mention the name) is failing to return warrants back to them and that there are many expired warrants still with that company that are over a year old !!!

 

I am afraid that you are wrong about an N245. This form is ONLY for a County Court Judgment. This matter is concerning an unapaid MAGISTRATES COURT FINE.

 

It is possible ( although rare) that your friend can go back to the MAGISTRATES Court to ask to complete a Means Form but I would stress that this is not normal as the Court will say that the case is with the bailiff.

 

If your friend did not receive notification of these fines, then she simply needs to complete a Statutory Declaration. This will CANCEL bailiff action and the case will then revert back to the court and bailiff fees are REMOVED. The wording on these Statutory Declarations is most specific and there is a strict time frame in which to make this application.

[moving on..]

Thank you Tomtubby for your reply.

 

I have just got back from seeing my friend, who now has gone to work albeit late and very distressed.

I am a little confused now. But I will try and be brief and factual!

The bailiff followed the police up into her flat when they arrived even though my friend requested they stay downstairs.

She paid the amount that was on the distress warrent though she did not pay close attention.I think the court fine was £400.00 and she paid a total of £1057.50.( She paid a fine of £180 back in the summer and I advised her to dig this out.)

As she was struggling to borrow the money the police left, the bailiffs agreed that they would accept part payment whilst the police were there , when the police left they demanded the whole amount. They did not leave the warrent, but she has since asked that they bring it back to her.

They have given her a Notice of Seizure of goods and inventory and stated now that she owes a further £2758.24 and on this form is quoted penalty charge notices.They have told her she has two weeks to pay. They also told the police they have the warrents for these fines and will fax them.I rang the bailiff and asked them to fax them to her place of work also. They were vague and said I was getting confused with magistrates and other warrents and they would not need them to come back for the parking fines??..but would fax them anyway??

They did state that they would not need a warrent to come back in two weeks to collect the outstanding amount.?. Here i am confused , as they have done an inventory can they come back without a warrent for parking fines?

They were very intimidating and even after she had paid the £1057.50 , and she was reluctant to sign anything , they said if she did not they would remove goods for the penalty charges quoted there and then.

 

What I would like to do for my friend is to help her negotiate payment and get her head out of the proverbial sand...Half the fines she has no knowledge off..i suspect they were given when her ex-partner was using the vehicle..apart from assaulting her in broad daylight in front of the children she teaches..there is a whole catalogue of abuse , taking money from her..£10,000 !..My friend has found the strength to stop the abuse , and as I mentioned earlier he was arrested and is on police bail.

All this I feel has lead to where we are now..and the sheer intimidation and bullying of this morning makes me want to help her find away to tackle these fines without the involvement of these bully boys

 

So first I would advise her to make a staturory declaration?

Can you confirm if now they have what looks like a walking possession agreement can they come back any time??

Thank you once again

 

kind regards

Jane.

[tomtubby]

My ealier response was WRONG. From readon your question I assumed that this was a Magistrates Court Fine when in fact it appears to be unpaid Parking Charge Notices.

 

The difference is the forms, warrants and the fact that the debt is Civil and NOT criminal.

 

Can you please get your friend to telephone the Traffic Enforcement Centre on 08457 045 007 . She will need to PCN numbers. These will be 2 digits followed by 8 numbers. This might be on the papers left by the bailiffs. As an example, for a Reading ticket you will be looking for RG xx xx xx xx and for a Westminster ticket WM xx xx xx xx.

 

Can you give these details to TEc and ask them please for the Warrant date and address on the warrant.

 

The warrant must be within the past 12 months. If you post back I can advise further. The address on the warrant is important.

 

 

PS: By the police coming through the door, the bailiff has obtained "peaceful entry". This is allowed.

 

If they have seized items, then yes they can now come back to remove those items.

 

If she has grounds to file Out of Time Declarations then all bailiff action is FROZEN and the the matter will be on hold for approx 2 months.

 

Try not to put TOO much information on your reply as many bailiffs and their companies read these posts daily !!

[moving on..]

Thank you Tomtubby and Good morning

I will call the TEC when they open..I do have the pcn numbers.

I hope you do not mind if I pm you the details.

On speaking to the local council office yesterday..mainly about the bailiffs conduct and over £1182 of their fees..an advisor told me that 5 of the pcns that the bailiff had quoted on the notice of seizure of goods had been withdrawn and she said sorry the bailiff made a mistake!Does this make the notice invalid?.They had no warrants on them for the pcns when they entered the property...

They said they had one from magistrates for another matter..though my friend realised they took the warrant with them and she did not even really read what was on it. They told her they do not need a warrant to come back for pcn s.

very many thanks

moving on..

[moving on..]

Good morning

I tried to PM but cannot .. I hope the info below is just enough?!

On ringing TEC..one advisor gave me the info. Another would not.

confirmation dates I have are 15th July 2008, (work address ) 22nd feb 2008 (two this date), 29th feb 2008, 11th march 2008,(two with this date), and April, but advisor would not confirm adress or exact date of last two.He asked friend to call directly. All to home address.

kind regards

moving on..

[tomtubby]

Good morning

I tried to PM but cannot .. I hope the info below is just enough?!

On ringing TEC..one advisor gave me the info. Another would not.

confirmation dates I have are 15th July 2008, (work address ) 22nd feb 2008 (two this date), 29th feb 2008, 11th march 2008,(two with this date), and April, but advisor would not confirm adress or exact date of last two.He asked friend to call directly. All to home address.

kind regards

moving on..

 

Can you confirm that the above dates are the dates that the Warrants were authorised?

 

15th July 2008

22nd Feb 2008

29th Feb 2008

11th March 2008.

 

If so, then the Warrants of 22nd Feb and 29th March are no longer valid and the the one for 11th March runds out next week.

 

If this is so, and the bailiff was attempting to enforce expired warrants then this is very serious indeed ........and a bailiff recently had a Form 4 Compliant hearing in the County Court on this very matter.

 

Please do check this out today.

[moving on..]

Hi Tomtubby

 

Thanks so much for getting back to me.

I had confirmation from the local council that 5 of the pcns the bailiffs wrote on the notice of seizure had been withdrawn as they were indeed out of date.!!The council advisor stated she was sorry and the bailiff should have known!..(could I get a transcript of the call?), For the outstanding 4, they said the amount due would be £1621.84. not sure how they arrived at that figure.

What I am concerned about for my friend is the signed Notice of seizure of goods and inventory. This was given without the warrants seen and signed as they were in the house for what they said was a magistrates warrant of distress. To date They have neither faxed or returned that warrant nor have they faxed the warrants for the pcns .

I have received the stat out of time documents from the courts, but am unsure how to proceed as you say 6 of the warrants will be out of date next week.

so do I advise my friend to carry on with the stat out of time documents for all the warrants?

Even though the phone call to the council confirmed 5 warrants out of date can they still enter on the notice of seizure? They said they would be back in 14 days.

 

very many thanks as always

Jane.

[moving on..]

Good morning

My friend has now received a response to her SAR ..which does not really tell a lot!

She also asked for a breakdown of fees and copy of the warrant that they collected on..neither of these were sent.?

Do I write again?

On the payment receipt it mentions Milton Keynes Magistrates?

If my friend rings the court will they send her a copy of the warrant, or at least give information as to when the warrant was issued.? (Northampton did).

That morning Marstons took over a £1000..and were rude and belligerent..and despite numerous calls on and after that day never returned with a copy of the warrant..(they also levied on that day on out of date warrants)... I believe this money was also collected on an out of date warrant.

What to advise my friend to do next?

Thanks in advance

moving on....

[sillygirl1]

Do a Form 4 complaint about the bailiff, they DID know about the out of date warrants, they just can't make these kind of 'mistakes'. I now sugggest you also go to the police and put a complaint to the Chief of Police of your area asking why the police were allowed to assist the bailiff in a fraudulent activity... Tomtubby will have more advice on this.

[diddydicky]

been following the thread with interest,

 

the bailiff trying to enforce an out of date warrant is not fraudulent its just sloppy at best and a try on at worst - a court would argue that the warrant will be re issued in any event

 

the police are NOT there to assist the bailiff- they are there only to prevent a breach of the peace (by either party)

[moving on..]

Good morning,

I spoke briefly to my friend yesterday....it looks like the out of time stat.decs filed for the above pcns have been denyed?

What is the next step?..( i will look at the paperwork later today)..my friend said it said something about reduced payments..but i know she has no money .

just wondering what advice i can give her in the interim?

regards

moving on.

[tomtubby]

been following the thread with interest,

 

the bailiff trying to enforce an out of date warrant is not fraudulent its just sloppy at best and a try on at worst - a court would argue that the warrant will be re issued in any event

 

the police are NOT there to assist the bailiff- they are there only to prevent a breach of the peace (by either party)

 

 

DD.

 

We have papers at our office concerning a Form 4 Complaint made against a bailiff who was attempting to enforce an out of date Warrant of Execution issued by the traffic Enforcement Centre and at the hearing the District Judge imposed a "order" against the bailiff's certificate that if there were any further complaints about him that his certificate would immediately be revoked.

 

The DJ also stated that the bailiff was in a "very privileged position of trust" and that the bailiff knew full well that he must not enforce an out of date warrant and she awarded the debtor a sum of £1,500 to be paid by the bailiff from the proceeds of the bailiff's bond.

[diddydicky]

well thats good tomtubby - you learn something new everyday!

 

cant say i disagree with it- as i said it is easy enough to get an OOD warrant re issued so it is as i said sloppy and not very professional

 

your remarks do however endorse the fact (as i have been saying) that many of the old practices have and are being done away with over the last few years and about time too