Sacked from driving job

[thecatsdad]

Hi People,

I've come across a problem which my brother has and I think it's unjust, wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction.

 

Basically, my bro is (was?) a class 1 (hgv) driver and had worked for the same firm for two years.

 

In November last, he had an accident; he doesn't remember what happened because he may have 'blacked out'.

Anyway, he went to hospital and was treated for minor injuries and released.

However, the hosptal wrote to his employer and told them that the accident may have been as a result of him 'blacking out'.

 

His firm sacked him on the spot.

Police wrote to him saying no further action;

No contact from the DVLA;

 

Question is, can his firm sack him for these reasons?

My gut instinct is they can't;

Another question is; is the hospital allowed to write to someone's employer with the above allegations?

My gut instinct is they can't.

 

The DVLA may well suspend his licence, all well and good till it's decided whether he's fit enough to drive large trucks safely, but it seems the hospital and his ex-employers have decided to be Judge and Jury on him without all the salient facts and a proper prognosis and diagnosis.

 

Any thoughts?

[godpikachu]

Well, it depends.

People dont just black out without a reason, and obviously if he is prone to blackouts then he is not safe to drive.

 

Does he have any medical explanation for these blackouts?, there are several medical conditions which feature blackouts as a symptom.

Was he on any medication at the time that caused drowsyness or fatigue?, has he been having trouble sleeping?.

 

While his employers really shouldnt have just sacked him on the spot, they would be justified in stopping him from driving until it became clear as to why this happenned, did they give any reasons for doing so?.

 

as he has 2 years work with them he would be entitled to lodge a claim for unfair dismissal, however as to the reasons youre going to have to supply furthur info before we can figure out what went off.

[angel_1]

hiya thecatsdad - can only offer some support saw no one had actually written a reply as yet - oops i do apologise to godpikachu seems we were typing at the same time,,,

 

very sorry to hear of this have no legal knowledge on this only wondered whether your bro was part of any union?

 

im sure others far more experienced will come along later to give you good advice

 

it does sound very unfair, and i do hope that you get some positive steps to challenge this

 

take care and i will look in later to see if anyone has come along to help you

 

laters angel x

[thecatsdad]

Thanks for the replies;

Bit more background;

 

He isn't and wasn't prone to blackouts prior to this incident;

Since the accident he is being treated and tested for lung problems - congestive summat or other:

No drugs prior to incident;

 

Sleeping pattern was 'irregular' at best, he slept in the truck 5 nights out of seven and often moaned about how difficult it was to get good rest in motorway services truckstops - other trucks moving, fridges running all night, general noise.

I guess the above would go hand in hand with fatigue;

 

He's always been a lardy chap and driving a truck for a living, eating fatty foods, smoking, no exercise has helped pile on the weight, he's also early 50's.

 

Employers gave no reasons for his sacking apart from unable to employ 'due to hospital advice'. (Thankfully, in writing)

 

Angel, to answer your question, no Union, but I'm wondering if his car insurance has legal protection, might be worth a shot if he has.

 

Anyway, hope this helps, I'm just looking for a direction at the moment; since the accident he has been unable to do much for himself and he hasn't come into the 21st - or 20th, for that matter - century so no computer so I'm looking on his behalf.

 

Last thing, he doesn't want to drive if he is going to be prone to 'blackouts'; it was, and is, a terrifying incident for him to know that one minute he was driving happily along and the next to wake up in hospital. Praise God the only person hurt was him, but the alternative keeps him awake at night. His accident was on a deserted stretch of the A14 in Cambs, he wonders what the outcome would have been if it had happened on the M25 in rush hour.

 

Thanks for your help so far, we both appreciate your time, experience, knowledge and help.;-)

 

TCD

[godpikachu]

right, first thing i would advise is that he request a written reason from his employers for his dismissal, citing specific reasons for it, simply stating "on hospital advice" is not sufficient, as the hospital would not disclose his condition to anyone other than his family etc, and they dont "give advice" to employers.

I would also give CAB and ACAS a call and ask their opinion on it, as like i said he does have the right to tribunal and if they havent gone through a disciplinary process for his dismissal then he could claim for unfair dismissal.

 

Secondly, he needs to be getting himself to the doctors and finding out once and for all why these blackouts have started.

Obviously his age and general health, combined with the irregular sleeping pattern and lack of exersize in his job will probably cause his blood pressure to be sky high (a sign of high blood pressure is irregular sleep). One consequence of high blood pressure can be blackouts or at the worst, heart attacks or a stroke, so he needs to consult his doctor ASAP.

[thecatsdad]

right, first thing i would advise is that he request a written reason from his employers for his dismissal, citing specific reasons for it, simply stating "on hospital advice" is not sufficient, as the hospital would not disclose his condition to anyone other than his family etc, and they dont "give advice" to employers.

 

 

Secondly, he needs to be getting himself to the doctors and finding out once and for all why these blackouts have started..

 

Hi Godpikachu

Yes, when I asked to see the letter of dismissal, he did say the employer didn't give him one at the time, but stated they wold post it out - that was three months ago, still no letter.

 

He has a copy of the letter the hospital sent to his employers and it is graphic in it's description of his condition.

 

He is under a specialist at a hospital in Cambs who is testing him to discover what his condition actually is.

 

Thanks for the CAB/ACAS info, I shall get straight onto it.

 

Again, we are both most appreciative of your help.

[godpikachu]

ah....usually you can only lodge a claim for tribunal within 3 months of the end of employment, some claims can go through after this if there is a reason for it not being done earlier but thats something you would have to discuss with the CAB.

It is a bit suss that it took them a whole 3 months to send him a letter containing drivel though isnt it?

[thecatsdad]

ah....usually you can only lodge a claim for tribunal within 3 months of the end of employment, some claims can go through after this if there is a reason for it not being done earlier but thats something you would have to discuss with the CAB.

It is a bit suss that it took them a whole 3 months to send him a letter containing drivel though isnt it?

 

I've checked the 3 month limit and if you can prove sickness then it's extended to 6 months, I think we can do that easily.

 

So far they haven't sent him squat, the letter he got from the hospital is clearly marked as his cc but pointedly addressed to his employers.

 

It's statement and evidence gathering time now methinks.

 

'preciate your help:)

[godpikachu]

right, well in that case he needs to write to them, sending it by recorded delivery, stating words to the effect of..

 

"on (date) i requested full reasons behind my dismissal providing to me in writing, you have not as yet supplied this information, which is a legal requirement.

Therefore i have no choice but to take this matter before an employment tribunal and treat it as unfair dismissal."

 

go and get a form ET1 form the CAB, fill it in and return it ASAP, the clock is ticking.

[raydetinu]

Is it normal for hosp to advise employers of treatment let alone drawing conclusions from an incident; sounds like breach of confidentiality to me!

What does his GP say, further tests etc.

Employer must give grounds for dismissal, a letter from hospital would not be sufficient! IMO. Has he been given any compensation in liue of notice or redundacy.

[poppynurse]

I sometimes have to tell folk that they can no longer drive (for x long) due to a DVLA licence restriction as a result of a health problem. I would always tell the individual and advise them to notify the DVLA - if I (in consultation with the MDT) felt they were likely to ignore the restriction the hospital MAY write to the DVLA/GP (to protect the public) but I have never known us write to the employer I would have thought this was a confidentiality breach.

 

I would be complaining to the hospital concerned.

 

I would also be questioning why the employer hadn't redeployed the worker as driving restrictions are usually time limited.

[thecatsdad]

BUMPITY BIG BUMP

As is my occasional wont, I visit this fine site intermittently, usually when I have a small issue - compared with others here - or just to have a browse.

 

In honesty, a few years ago, I was hip deep in the smelly stuff, but with good fortune, a very tight belt and the help and love of a very good wife, I've got through it, so it is possible if you try hard enough and get the breaks.

 

Anyway, one of my personal gripes - and i'm probably not alone - is that after people come on here with terrible issues and get advice - good, bad or indifferent - we never hear the outcome. Even if things don't go right after being on here and absorbing the said advice, it would be useful to know the outcome so that the advisors know their advice was right - or wrong.

 

So to that end, I'm going to fill the blanks on a couple of my post's tonight.

Firstly this one. The story is above so I wont re-hash it.

 

I filed an ET claim against the Company my brother worked for - this was allowed under the time limit constraint as I had hospital records showing he was in hospital at the three month limit; ACAS became involved - as they do - and they mediated between us. The Company was a complete pain in the posterior, refusing to negotiate, being abusive and basically painting my brother as an unreliable worker. (He undoubtedly was, but as they didn't keep records of his 'warnings', they managed to shoot themselves in the foot).

ACAS were very good, I think below the surface they had sympathy for our case but were too professional to show it outwardly and they negotiated a cash settlement which was very favourable to us, allied with a written reference which swerved the issue of them giving 'no reference'.

So a win.

 

In reference to the medical issue here; brother was diagnosed with 'sleep apenoa' (spelling might be off there), which was related to his weight and work lifestyle.

Did DVLA get involved? Probably not. Did I advise him to seek incapacity benefit and get away from driving? Yes I did. Did he get it? No. Is he still driving? I don't know, but probably, yes. (We have since 'fallen out' and don't speak to one another now).

 

So thank you to all that took an interest and I used some of the advice, disregarded other, but got through it.

 

You are - generally unheralded - stars.

 

Ian

[Surfer01]

Thanks for the update. Shame you have fallen out, but life is too short to worry about it.