Advice on Vanquis credit card.

[Seasider1956]

Hello, as I have mentioned on a previous post we are in debt to this company.

 

We have used template letters to write to them asking them to accept a small monthly payment, and suspend interest charged to the card, which they have refused.

 

The telephone calls have now increased to 8 calls a day.

 

They also tell us that they have not answered our letters because they only communicate by telephone, as the mail could be read by anyone.

 

Is all this correct, or are they having us on.

 

Replies would be gratefully received.

[clemma]

They are talking out of their rear end. Have you sent the telephone harassment letter?

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

 

Also you can send for a copy of your original credit agreement. They then have 12+2 days to respond with a valid, enforceable agreement. If they don't, the account then goes in to dispute and you do not have to pay them another penny UNTIL they produce the CCA. You can send the following letter, by recorded delivery and include a £1 postal order. PRINT, do not sign the letter.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

Yours etc

 

When, and IF, you receive any documents from them, try and post them on here (omitting any personal information) and you will get the advise you need.

[chris600uk]

They also tell us that they have not answered our letters because they only communicate by telephone, as the mail could be read by anyone.

 

Is all this correct, or are they having us on.

 

Clemma is right, they are having you on.

 

So this is what you do from now on.

 

First write back to them explaining that you do not discuss financial matters over the phone to avoid confusion and because of the difficulty establishing the identity of the caller.

 

Then each time the phone rings follow a simple script.

 

Caller: ring ring

 

You: Hello , who is calling please

 

Caller: is that Mrs so and so?

 

You: Hello, who is calling please

 

repeat three times or for as long as you want. They'll get fed up before you will I promise.

 

Caller: I'm sorry I can't tell you that, is that Mrs so and so

 

You: I don't accept anonymous phone calls so I'm going to terminate this call, good bye

 

 

If they are dumb enough to give you a name, then ask them to spell it, tell you what company they represent and ask why they are calling.

 

Once you have that information, sweetly explain:

 

You: Thank you Jim Gerry Gary (whatever), but I don't discuss financial matters over the phone, please put whatever you want to say in writing please, good bye, click.

 

 

Do this each time the phone rings - if friends or family call you shouldn't ask them to put their message in writing - unless you want to

 

 

Don't be intimidated, it's only a voice at the end of 50 miles of wire, and don't be rude there's no need.

 

 

 

 

or

[palomino]

They also tell us that they have not answered our letters because they only communicate by telephone, as the mail could be read by anyone.

 

Which is, of course, why they send you printed monthly statements - so everyone can read them.

The real reason they don't write letters is because they can't write...

[chris600uk]

Very harsh so early in the morning.......

 

But probably true.

[Seasider1956]

Thanks all for you replies, we have sent the telephone harassment letter.

 

Chris600uk I will try that next time they ring, thanks.

 

I will keep you informed as to what happens.

 

Bob.

[chris600uk]

Good luck

 

Remember that the purpose of the phone call is to intimidate and gain control, so if you turn the tables on them and deny them the opportunity to do that, they will soon tire of calling you.

 

There are lots of people out there they CAN intimidate, and if they find that you are not compliant and weak, they will move on to someone else.

 

I do it, and it works.

[Seasider1956]

Good luck

 

Remember that the purpose of the phone call is to intimidate and gain control, so if you turn the tables on them and deny them the opportunity to do that, they will soon tire of calling you.

 

There are lots of people out there they CAN intimidate, and if they find that you are not compliant and weak, they will move on to someone else.

 

I do it, and it works.

 

 

Hello everyone,

 

I have just received a reply from Vanquis bank after I had sent a request for a CCA using a template letter of your great site.

 

 

The covering letter is as follows.

 

CREDIT CARD

 

In satisfaction of your request made under section 78 of the consumer credit act1974 for a copy of the credit agreement, I enclose a copy of the application form which would have been completed by you together with a copy of the terms and conditions referred to in it.

 

We regard this as meeting our obligation under section 78 of the act 1974 to provide you with a true copy of the executed agreement. On their proper construction, that section and regulation 3 of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) Regulations 1983 (1983S.I. No. 1553) do not require us to provide you with a copy of the executed credit agreement between us in the form of a photocopy of that document.

 

If you require further clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me on telephone number 0000 000 0000 between 9:00am and 5:30pm Monday to Friday.Telephone calls may be monitored and all calls will be recorded for the purpose of quality control, training and/ or fraud prevention.Alternatively, you may wish to write to me at the above address, ensuring that you reference number is quoted on all correspondence.

 

 

 

All that they sent me was a photocopy of an new application form and a load of terms and conditions.

 

Nothing with my details anywhere or signature. :-|

 

 

Is this correct, and could you advise what I should do next.

 

Regards BOB.

[clemma]

You can send the following letter to them - what they have sent is totally unenforceable

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re: your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions and a blank application form. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions and a blank applicatio form is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[Seasider1956]

Thank you Clemma i will send them one.

 

This company do not take any notice of letters that are sent to them.

 

They still phone 4 times a day after sending the telephone harassment form.

 

Thanks for you reply Clemma.

 

Bob.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Seasider1956
Spelling.

[clemma]

There is a fantastic letter on here somewhere (I will find it for you) that is rather scary () to tell them to quit phoning you.

[clemma]

Courtesy of diskmandave (what a star ) - there are 3 letters. Copy the one you like the best. They always work for DMD

 

 

 

[Seasider1956]

Thank you Clemma.

 

Those will do great. Again thank you you are a star.

 

Bob.

[Seasider1956]

I have posted the letter you posted Clemma, recorded delivery.

 

Does the 12 days start again, or is it still from when I posted the original request on the 12th March 09 for a CCA true copy.

 

Regards Bob.

[clemma]

The letter you have sent has not got a time limit for a reply. You are just putting the ball back in their court. I predict you will receive a letter from them trying to explain exactly how what they have sent you IS enforceable. It's not, but they are not going to admit that are they!

[Seasider1956]

Thanks Clemma.

 

Bob.

[Seasider1956]

Hello everyone,

 

After you have sent a CCA request, which we did on the 12 March 09 and signed for by Vanquis on the 13 March, are they still able to charge interest.

 

We have just received a statement dated 17 March and they have added £79.50 interest and £24 default Sums, late payment fee £12, and overlimit fee £12.

 

Are they allowed to do this?

If they are, the £10 a month we offered is not going to make any difference to the debt.

 

Should we just stop payments?

 

Any help would be most welcome.

 

Bob.

[clemma]

Hello everyone,

 

After you have sent a CCA request, which we did on the 12 March 09 and signed for by Vanquis on the 13 March, are they still able to charge interest.

 

We have just received a statement dated 17 March and they have added £79.50 interest and £24 default Sums, late payment fee £12, and overlimit fee £12.

 

Are they allowed to do this?

If they are, the £10 a month we offered is not going to make any difference to the debt.

 

Should we just stop payments?

 

Any help would be most welcome.

 

Bob.

 

They can not charge interest etc. after the 12+2 working days are up and the account is in dispute. At the moment, they have not defaulted - not yet

[Seasider1956]

Many thanks Clemma.

 

Bob.

[Seasider1956]

Hello Everyone.

 

I have just received a letter from Vanquis this morning again stating that the do not need to send me a true copy, the letter is as follows.

 

Dear Mr ??????????

 

Credit Card

 

I refer to your recent correspondence regarding a request for information under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

With regard to meeting your request under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act. As previously stated, we are required only to provide you with a true copy of the executed agreement. As previously advised in my letter dated 16 March 2009, we are not however, required to provide you with a copy of the executed credit agreement between us in the form of a photocopy of that document. Please be advised that it is only necessary for us to provide the "signed copy" of your agreement to which you allude, in a court of law should legal proceedings be undertaken by us, and not at any time prior to this.

 

Given the above circumstances, and documentation previously sent to you in the form of the application form you would have completed together with a copy of the Terms and Conditions referred to in it, I therefore feel that we have satisfied your request in this instance.

 

Yours sincerely

 

???? ?????

Customer Action Team Co-ordinator.

 

Do I just leave this now or what can we do????

 

This is after I sent the letter you recommended Clemma,

 

BOB.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Seasider1956
Spelling.

[clemma]

Hmmmm.....you may have to change tact here. Read through this thread and send the first letter (post no. 2)http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[Seasider1956]

Thanks Clemma,

 

Will send the first letter, reading through those posts it looks like they are also ignoring those letters.

 

Will give it a go though.

 

Cheers, Bob.

[Seasider1956]

Afternoon everyone,

 

What happens if a credit card company do not respond to a CCA request within the 12+2 days they are allowed. And when I say not respond I mean no letters at all.

 

Does the account then go into default, do you send a letter to them?

 

Or do they have another 30 days to respond? what do we do?

 

It's just that I have read two template letters one says they only have 12+2, the other says 12+2 and gives them a further 30 days to respond.

 

Am a little confused!!!

 

Can anyone help please!

 

Regards Bob.

[clemma]

Pre-2006 they had 12+2 days to respond then a further 30 days to produce your CCA before becoming a criminal offence. This was repealed in 2006, so only the 12+2 days applies now (and it is no longer a criminal offence). Send the follwing letter:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[Seasider1956]

Thank you very much Clemma, I will pass on this information to my friend.

 

Thanks for your prompt reply.

 

Bob.