CCA Advice -NO Reply from MBNA?

[user2006]

Hello Clemma,

Thanks for the quick reply....seems like your always on hand to give advice;) thought the same thing regarding that sentence btw.

 

Im guessing they dont have one but would rather not just sit and wait till they apply defaults, which im sure will have a massive effect on my credit rating and then eventually selling the dept to some useless DCA months down the line. this will no doubt cause alot more hassle.

 

[clemma]

If they default you while it's in dispute then that is against OFT guidelines. You will have to battle to get them removed - but with persistence you may win.

 

As for the DCA's - well if they come on the scene, you need only send them one letter to send them packing As it is in dispute, MBNA cannot pass or sell this on to anyone - again its against OFT guidelines.

 

The minute MBNA start mis-behaving is when you must complain to the OFT, FSO and Information Commissioner. For now, I would sit tight until they make their next move.

[user2006]

i was just wondering where within sect. 189 it descrbes terms ...

"under Section 189 of the CCA 1974. and I consider that you have failed to comply with my request for these documents"

[MurphyW]

Hi All,

Just Subbing as about to ask for CCA from MBNA and other cards.

Will start my own thread when required thanks for all your great advice and comments.

[user2006]

Hi. all

MBNA have just sent me a copy of an agreement, it is a copy of the original however it is has been photo copied onto an a4 sheet back and front. the copy is unreadable in parts but this is probably down to the photocopier. (btw its one of the lick this edge and post pack applications) the cancelation section statates that a copy of of details on how to cancel will be sent in the post. this was not included with the agreement and i dont think it was sent at the time the account was opened.

 

Also i need advice with PPI, this was taken out at the time of account opening but nothing about this is in the agreement>?

 

Thanks in advance for all you help and comments.

[citizenB]

It would help if you are able to scan it in, edit out your personal info, barcodes and any references that might identify you first.

 

You could also have a look in the MBNA document library to see if there is anything similar to yours. Link below

 

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

 

HTH

[user2006]

thanks CitizenB,

will upload tonight....

[user2006]

Any opinions on the following agreement much appriciated.

 

MBNA sent me a the following CCA it was photocopied on a single sheet of A4 paper front and back.

 

they say that all the predescribes terms are there even if it is "slightly" illegable in parts!??

 

Edited July 18, 2009 by user2006

[user2006]

i have also found all my all statments and letters from when the account was opened. Ie the letter the CC came stuck to and a seperate letter about Protection payments. Will these be of much use??? Ie multiple agreement requirements!

i can upload the CC letter (it has the T&C's .)

[user2006]

Links below are to the original letter i recieved with |CC when account was first opened

 

the Interest rate looks wrong to me. my credit limit was £2000 they show examples for £1000,£3000 or £5000.!??

 

front

 

not quite sure what's the next step....the CCA they sent me obviously does not contain (or at least not visibly from the photocopy,) all the predescibed T&cs.

 

Should i complain to the FSO or just wait for them to make the next move?

Edited July 18, 2009 by user2006

[clemma]

First off they send you a copy of the application form, which was unenforceable, and now they are trying to fob you off with a bunch of T&C's that bear no link to you

 

Send them the following letter if you want, it's up to you as to whether you think they are worth the cost of a stamp:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re: your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

__________________

[user2006]

Hi clemma thanks for your response.

The document that they sent in response to my request is the application form that i filled out. It does seem to have some of the required terms but its hard to read in places. sorry for all the questions but i thought that application forms are CCAs as long as they contain the relevant t&Cs.?

 

How can i be sure that the copy of the document they sent me is unenfocable/? In my opinion it in unenforcable as it has no mention of the PPI that was taken out.,...but im sure thats not the only reason.

[clemma]

The T&C's are unenforceable as you have not signed them - therefore they are no bearing on any agreement you may or may not have with Virgin. They could apply to anyone - and they must apply specifiacally to you by way of your signature. The application form from earlier is also unenforceable as none of the prescribed terms are mentioned.

 

I don't think you are going to get any further with these clowns to be honest. You can send the letter I have sent above, but I know they will reply saying they have complied with the CCA1974 request (although you will know better than that).

[clemma]

The first two documents you have put up look suspiciously like microfiche copies, therefore I would tend to think they will not have the original. They are very poor copies and to be enforceable, they must be completely legible and in their original state.

[user2006]

The first two documents you have put up look suspiciously like microfiche copies, therefore I would tend to think they will not have the original. They are very poor copies and to be enforceable, they must be completely legible and in their original state.

 

I have edited the identifiable bits out, but im sure they have the original as it had shade marks around the edges from where it was photocopied. just my opinion....! im sure that these application forms have 3 sections.

 

MBNA Wasting my life away!!! Taken 4 months approx to get that application form from them...ohwell.....lets just wait and see what happens.

 

Will keep you updated and thanks for your support Clemma.