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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Welcome finance early settlement issues


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I wonder if anyone can help.... i was hoping to settle a loan i took out with welcome finance 2yrs ago early and the settlement figure i received doesn' make sense. ABout 2000pounds despite 2yrs worth of monthly payment of 131.53. Never missed a payment.

 

I asked for a statement of how this came about over two months ago and received nothing to date. and the more this drags on the more the monthly interest which is about 59% apr.

 

This is my second attempt at trying to pay off my loan. The first time about a year ago... they wouldn't cash the cheque i sent and just kept on with the ddr until i used the money.

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Welcome front load there loans so it effectively costs you more to settle early!! I had a £2000 loan in Jan 07 paid £190 every month without fail - yet in feb 2008 my settlement figure was £4,700 even though I had paid £2280. They also told me that I had to ask for a settlement figure in writing and that they had 4 weeks to send it!

Welcome a pure jokers!!

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I think they make their own rules up in the branches; I was told my settlement figure over the phone over a year ago.

 

Ignore the branch altogether and send a recorded letter to the head office instead asking for a statement.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

 

Were do i start......

I wonder if anyone can help. I took out a loan with welcome in April 07. Want an early settlement in August, received a statement and sent off the cheque. Only to learn 3months down the line, that they hadn't cashed the cheque due to the payment been made as two cheques (from two of my current account), that they can only accept a whole ''one'' payment.

 

Somehow no one bothered to let me know this, someone just turned up at my door 8pm at night to say that i was in arears and wanted payment. Well told the person to leave my house or be met with the police. Called the branch next day, and was told a load of crap by the manager about the two cheque issue and how the settlement figure has now changed due to arears and charges as a result of the areas. As i couldn't afford the new settlement amount, i continued with monthly payment. Being quite young, no much knowlede of my rights and gullible at the time, i took their word for it.

 

Well here i am again, after saving up for a while, i was hoping to settle early again (trying clear as much debt as possible before going on maternity, to limit my outgoings as much as possible while on maternity pay), but problems with welcome again. I just get the feeling they give people a run around from settling early.

 

Actual loan on April 07 - 2500

Monthly payment - 131.51

Loan taken over 36months

 

Asked for an early settlement figure, received a figure of 2,380.06 partly hand written crapy letter, with no explaination of how the figure came about.

 

I was quite taken aback by the amount left, as the inital loan was for 2500, paid 2893.22 to date. Called the branch to ask how the figure came about and was told it could be down to charges or missed payments. Told the man i have never missed a payment apart from three months arears issued mentioned aboved.

Asked for a statement on 15.01.09 and no response to date.

Sent off an SAR on 04.02.09 and no response to date.

 

 

Issues in summary:

  • Need to claim back the charges supposedly applied on my account noted above (still waiting for the statement to see how much this is.
  • Aparantely the ridiculous interest (APR 59.39%, annual interest rate of 55.55%) monthly interest 3.75%) on the loan (i know i should have know better) is also applied on the charges. Can they do this? Can i claim this back too?
  • What do i do in the event of no response to statement request and SAR?
  • And finally, upon reading up on first early settlement statement docs... I just realised that although in my agreement the Acceptance Fee is listed separately from the total charge for credit as it should be, on the statement supplied it is shown as added to initial ‘total amount of credit’ to make the higher amount, which interest is then calculated on. I learnt this might render the contract the contract unenforeceable, how true is it? (s.61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and has been proved in court through Wilson V First County Trust)???

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Edited by prudent
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Also appreciate it, if anyone can have a look at letter i am hoping to send off tomorrow to welcome with regards to the issues above. Thanks in advance....:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing to you with regard to the above account. I have come across what I believe and can prove to be a breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 hence rendering the above account unenforceable.

 

I have discovered from your companies paperwork that whilst my agreement shows an acceptance fee of £75 that is calculated into the overall loan total your company has failed to disclose on this document that the £75 has had an interest rate applied. This contravenes s.61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and has been proved in court through Wilson V First County Trust.

 

I would also say that I feel your company has deliberately mislead their representations as the acceptance fee is clearly shown as a separate figure on the credit agreement I will be referring this matter to the Financial Services Authority as I deem this to be a direct attempt to mislead the customer.

 

Therefore as this account is now unenforceable I will be canceling my future direct debits to your company with immediate effect and request a refund of all payments made to your company before this date.

 

Furthermore, despite sending you a formal Subject Access Request on the 05.02.09, I still have not have received the necessary documents.

I would like to remind you that the 40 days for supplying information after our Subject Access Request ends on the 17.03.09.

 

In addition, if you fail to meet your obligation under the act a report will be sent to the information commissioner and you will face investigation.

 

Furthermore, I am sure you are now aware due to the sheer amount of these letters you receive plus the massive media attention, that every time you receive one of these letters it will be followed up by a request for a full refund of any disproportionate penalty charges and associated charges, this will give you 14 days to do so before court action. Please note if I have to take court action to reclaim these charges then I will do so. Therefore, to save yourselves some time and money, if you could just refund all these charges dating back six years immediately you will not incur the court fees or your solicitors fees and the 8% interest I am entitled to claim.As this account is now in dispute you may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment. You may not add further interest or charges to the above account nor are you to pass this account to a third party.Lastly you may not register any information in respect of this account with a credit reference agency nor are you allowed to issue a default with regards to this account.

 

If my request is not complied with within 14 days I will have no further option to file this matter in the courts.

 

I expect a swift response to this matter

 

Yours Faithfully

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Sincerely sorry to jump in please...... Would anyone have an email address for welcome head office, cattle or even Cattles MD. They keep ignoring my letter, so i'm hoping to try other options....

 

 

Thanks

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Would anyone have an email address for welcome head office, cattles or even Cattles MD please? They keep ignoring my letter, so i'm hoping to try other options....

 

 

Thanks

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Is this an open thread for welcome issues, slightly new to posting, so mistakenly opened new thread.... some help on my long issue below would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

Were do i start......

I wonder if anyone can help. I took out a loan with welcome in April 07. Wanted an early settlement in August, received a statement and sent off the cheque. Only to learn 3months down the line, that they hadn't cashed the cheque due to the payment been made as two cheques (from two of my current account), that they can only accept a whole ''one'' payment.

 

Somehow no one bothered to let me know this, someone just turned up at my door 8pm at night to say that i was in arears and wanted payment. Well told the person to leave my house or be met with the police. Called the branch next day, and was told a load of crap by the manager about the two cheque issue and how the settlement figure has now changed due to arears and charges as a result of the areas. As i couldn't afford the new settlement amount, i continued with monthly payment. Being quite young, no much knowlede of my rights and gullible at the time, i took their word for it.

 

Well here i am again, after saving up for a while, i was hoping to settle early again (trying clear as much debt as possible before going on maternity, to limit my outgoings as much as possible while on maternity pay), but problems with welcome again. I just get the feeling they give people a run around from settling early.

 

Actual loan on April 07 - 2500

Monthly payment - 131.51

Loan taken over 36months

 

Asked for an early settlement figure, received a figure of 2,380.06 partly hand written crapy letter, with no explaination of how the figure came about.

 

I was quite taken aback by the amount left, as the inital loan was for 2500, paid 2893.22 to date. Called the branch to ask how the figure came about and was told it could be down to charges or missed payments. Told the man i have never missed a payment apart from three months arears issued mentioned aboved.

Asked for a statement on 15.01.09 and no response to date.

Sent off an SAR on 04.02.09 and no response to date.

 

 

Issues in summary:

  • Need to claim back the charges supposedly applied on my account noted above (still waiting for the statement to see how much this is.
  • Aparantely the ridiculous interest (APR 59.39%, annual interest rate of 55.55%) monthly interest 3.75%) on the loan (i know i should have know better) is also applied on the charges. Can they do this? Can i claim this back too?
  • What do i do in the event of no response to statement request and SAR?
  • And finally, upon reading up on first early settlement statement docs... I just realised that although in my agreement the Acceptance Fee is listed separately from the total charge for credit as it should be, on the statement supplied it is shown as added to initial ‘total amount of credit’ to make the higher amount, which interest is then calculated on. I learnt this might render the contract the contract unenforeceable, how true is it? (s.61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and has been proved in court through Wilson V First County Trust)???

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Also appreciate it, if anyone can have a look at letter i am hoping to send off tomorrow to welcome with regards to the issues above. Thanks in advance....:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing to you with regard to the above account. I have come across what I believe and can prove to be a breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 hence rendering the above account unenforceable.

 

I have discovered from your companies paperwork that whilst my agreement shows an acceptance fee of £75 that is calculated into the overall loan total your company has failed to disclose on this document that the £75 has had an interest rate applied. This contravenes s.61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and has been proved in court through Wilson V First County Trust.

 

I would also say that I feel your company has deliberately mislead their representations as the acceptance fee is clearly shown as a separate figure on the credit agreement I will be referring this matter to the Financial Services Authority as I deem this to be a direct attempt to mislead the customer.

 

Therefore as this account is now unenforceable I will be canceling my future direct debits to your company with immediate effect and request a refund of all payments made to your company before this date.

 

Furthermore, despite sending you a formal Subject Access Request on the 05.02.09, I still have not have received the necessary documents.

I would like to remind you that the 40 days for supplying information after our Subject Access Request ends on the 17.03.09.

 

In addition, if you fail to meet your obligation under the act a report will be sent to the information commissioner and you will face investigation.

 

Furthermore, I am sure you are now aware due to the sheer amount of these letters you receive plus the massive media attention, that every time you receive one of these letters it will be followed up by a request for a full refund of any disproportionate penalty charges and associated charges, this will give you 14 days to do so before court action. Please note if I have to take court action to reclaim these charges then I will do so. Therefore, to save yourselves some time and money, if you could just refund all these charges dating back six years immediately you will not incur the court fees or your solicitors fees and the 8% interest I am entitled to claim.As this account is now in dispute you may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment. You may not add further interest or charges to the above account nor are you to pass this account to a third party.Lastly you may not register any information in respect of this account with a credit reference agency nor are you allowed to issue a default with regards to this account.

 

If my request is not complied with within 14 days I will have no further option to file this matter in the courts.

 

I expect a swift response to this matter

 

Yours Faithfully

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Sorry to hijack your thread, but this would also interest me as I have sent a couple of letters regarding unfair default charges with no response. First letter I sent was 9/01/09, followed by another on 9/02/09 and will be sending another next week. Not heard a thing.

 

Ben

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Thanks for the details. That's were i've been sending prior letters to, in addition to sending copies to my local aberdeen branch via recorded delivery, but no reply to date. I am hoping an email address might push things along a bit. Really want to have this resolve soon.

 

Welcome issues in summary:

Early settlement issues

Charges and associated interest to reclaim

Interest on Acceptance fee

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  • 2 weeks later...

Started off just wanting to settle my account early. But welcomes dubious ways has got me digging dip, these people are seriously thiefs.

 

  • Loan: APril 07 - 2,500.
  • No PPI
  • Monthly payment - 131.51, total payment to date:2893.22.
  • Loan taken over 36months
  • Asked for an early settlement figure Jan 09, received a figure of 2,380.06 partly hand written crapy letter, with no explaination of how the figure came about.
  • Queried how this can be and was accused of maybe having missed payments in the past (Absolutely not i said).
  • Ask for statement on 15.01.09 (no reply to date)
  • SAR sent 13.02.09 (no reply to date).
  • Read on the forum about the acceptance fee mess up by welcome. Fortunately applies to me ) sent off another letter to welscum 06.03.09 (no reply yet again).
  • Now emailed all sorts, cattles, welcome, etc... waiting to see if these **** have the decency to reply their customers letter.

Now getting p'd off as the more they drag this on, the more interest they get out of me.... can i get them to put a stop on the interest?

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Hmmm CCA might not be what you're after as Agreements were apparently tidied up in Apr 07. I would SAR them instead. That way you'll get the Statement of Price which shows your monthly instalments.

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Sent off SAR on 12.02.09 - no reply to date, despite three more letters reminding them of days left and possible court acion and report to Information commissioner for non-compliance. Hopefully my emaills over the weekend to cattles, welcome, well basically all email addresses i could lay my hands on in relation to welciome will do the trick.

 

As i just received a reply to one of the emails i sent at the weekend with regards to the acceptance letter (to me they seem to be digging their own grave on the reply as it contracticts the info on the statement of price).

 

Fortunately, I still have all my contracts and paper work. And looking at the signed agreement and statement of price, they have charged interest on acceptance fee although the contract agreement makes it look otherwise.

 

Can anyone please double check if i'm wrong on this please?

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...entofprice.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/contract.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comeReply1.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comereply2.jpg

Edited by prudent
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Got a letter from these guys saying, we never received ur SAR. Which is an obvious lie as it was sent by special del... and i've got proof of delivery...

I've sent a reply attaching proof of del... and reminding that i'm counting days... canxeld the old chq and re-issued another...

Waiting game now...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, prudent.

 

You could try sending one of these letters.........

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-.html

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

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Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

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Thanks - already sent this letter to them about 2 wks ago. Any idea who i report non-compliance to in scotland. Will it aslo be the information commissioner for scotland?

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