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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Unfair PCN - Help Required Pls!!


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I was issued with a PCN for parking in a space displaying an invalid permit. The sentence is more detailed but I hope the point comes across okay.

 

I contested the PCN within 14 days as I had paid for a pay and display ticket and stuck it on my dashboard.:x

 

They came back to me about 6 weeks later to say the challenge had been reviewed but denied and upheld their PCN.

 

Their response letter had mentioned two things with regards to dates: first being that I must not pay later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of which the notice is served.

And second being if it is paid after the 28 days then it increases by 50%.

 

I'm fine with the above paragraph and so I contested their response within 28 days but proceeding under the assumption that the orginal 50% discount was intact. (I feel this is unfair as they had at no time mentioned in their response that I need to respond with 14 days to maintain the discount:confused::confused:-unless they mean from 14 days of the PCN:confused::confused:)

 

Additionally, the council have sent me another PCN for the same alleged offence:!::!: It feels like they are trying to bombard me with information at random times and letters. What's the best approach going forward please:confused::confused:

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Welcome to the forum.Thread moved here.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I now decide to bless this situation and declare it is 100% resolved in full for the highest good of all involved. This situation is totally resolved for the poster in the best possible way. It is an opportunity and a blessing in disguise. I declare it so. Only harmony and peace can result from it. Everyone wins. End of story.

 

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red.gif

Edited by nick-name
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Absolutely.:)

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Additionally, the council have sent me another PCN for the same alleged offence

what reasons did they deny your appeal

 

and is the second pcn ''identical'' to the first, and what regulation are they sending this under ie is it a regulation 10 postal pcn for the same offence.

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Rgarding PCNs. Not quite the same problem but does anyone know if the councils who issue the PCNs have to leave the ticket on the car for 30 mins before they tow it away?

 

Was towed by Brent and had to pay £250 to get it back from the car pound.PCN was only on windscreen for 25 mins from 10.46 to 11.08.:confused:

 

As I am appealing it and going to the adjudicator would appreciate any tips.

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Rgarding PCNs. Not quite the same problem but does anyone know if the councils who issue the PCNs have to leave the ticket on the car for 30 mins before they tow it away?

 

Was towed by Brent and had to pay £250 to get it back from the car pound.PCN was only on windscreen for 25 mins from 10.46 to 11.08.:confused:

 

As I am appealing it and going to the adjudicator would appreciate any tips.

go to fight back forums aka pepippoo and post your story there, watch for neilB in particular cos he can spot paperwork mistakes a mile off.

they have about 40 council tows currently running and most of the appeals they have dealt with are successful.

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Upon receipt of the above I had challenged the PCN (via post) that the vehicle was not mine, though the registration was correct, all the other details were wrong (hence they have not been blanked out).

 

But later on the same day to when I had gone to the post office to send my second challenge letter, I had received the PCN below:

 

Unfortunately this did contain the correct details, however that shouldn't change my original case of "they have issued the PCN incorrectly as I had a pay and display ticket" right :confused::confused:

 

And to my dismay, the charge had increased to £80! From my understanding, the discount should be intact if I respond with the 28 days:confused::confused::mad::-x

 

3rd PCN:

 

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Edited by WhichWayToTurn
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can you get this straight

 

you parked legally as yiu were showing a valid pay and dispaly ticket as posted.

 

You appealed on the basis that the vehicle details were incorrect as the pcn shows a seat rather than a volswagon, not metioning that the ticket was on display

 

They then send a notice to owner which you now have to appeal against.

 

yes???

Edited by nero12
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can you get this straight

 

you parked legally as yiu were showing a valid pay and dispaly ticket as posted. - That's correct but they are disputing that my ticket is not valid.

 

You appealed on the basis that the vehicle details were incorrect as the pcn shows a seat and the nto shows a volswagon, not metioning that the ticket was on display - The first appeal mentioned that I had displayed a valid ticket. The second appeal mentioned the car details being incorrect. To which on the same day of sending the second letter, I had received the 3rd PCN (my last attached picture).

 

They then send a notice to owner which you now have to appeal against. All the notices have been targeted towards me (the owner), I don't think I can hold the stance of "please contact the driver of the vehicle and not the registered keeper" as I already shown them my parking ticket. (I'm justing thinking out aloud here :))

 

yes???

 

I hope this helps.

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can you get this straight

 

you parked legally as yiu were showing a valid pay and dispaly ticket as posted. - That's correct but they are disputing that my ticket is not valid.

 

You appealed on the basis that the vehicle details were incorrect as the pcn shows a seat and the nto shows a volswagon, not metioning that the ticket was on display - The first appeal mentioned that I had displayed a valid ticket. The second appeal mentioned the car details being incorrect. To which on the same day of sending the second letter, I had received the 3rd PCN (my last attached picture).

 

They then send a notice to owner which you now have to appeal against. All the notices have been targeted towards me (the owner), I don't think I can hold the stance of "please contact the driver of the vehicle and not the registered keeper" as I already shown them my parking ticket. (I'm justing thinking out aloud here :))

 

yes???

 

I hope this helps.

Ok it seems we have maladministration regarding the make and model of your vehicle.

 

they are now making out that there are two vehicles involved.

 

Can you post up the rejection letter i need to see why they have rejected your appeal. What was wrong with the p&D ticket. ???

 

we also need to see th rest of the NTO please !!

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The rest of the NTO has been posted above. I will get the rejection letter scanned in tomorrow hopefully! Damn broken scanner! :mad:

 

Thanks for being patient.

fault found already

Edited by nero12
was two LOL
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Hi I am here

sorry mate a bit confused due to a hijak of thread.

 

Ok you said another ticket was issued for the same incident. yes??

 

why was your p&d ticket invalid.?? were you parked legally??

 

you also refer to t 3rd pcn. ??

do you mean letters

Edited by nero12
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Hi, Doing a lot of scrolling here! The Tax Disc expriy dates on notices referring PCN 303 and PCN 374 are different, not only the make of the car. Same person maybe different incidents but on same day. The reasons for the charge are both different on each of the two notices. One is expiry of ticket & one is invalid ticket.

 

Am I right in thinking your P&D ticket was paid up to 20.17pm and you paid £2.70? The 'time' boxes on both notices referring to the PCNs have not been completed - did you blank them out or did they not fill them in??

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It doesn't help blanking out half the information on the documents if you actually want help, the Council already has all your details so not giving them to us if a bit daft!! I tried to make out what was going on but with times locations etc all missing heaven knows why you got the tickets.

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