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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Discussion on enforceability of agreements


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this document is improperly exectued and not in compliance with S61(1)© CCA, the reasons?

 

Look at clause 1.5 (B)

 

where are the exceptions stated? clause 2,.4 . 3.5 and 3.6? they aint there so all the terms were not easily legible when the agreement was signed

 

 

also one has to question what are these terms? are they a term which says you do not have to pay on a day with a Y in it? could be. since its not stated then we just dont know

 

oh also, since its in relation to a prescribed term, they could be in trouble here too

 

 

Another thing, there is nothing linking the alleged back page scan to the front page e.g. no reference identifying it as a 2nd page of that document - it could be from anywhere. Also the back page (bottom) states virgin products whilst the front states mbna. :)

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Mine also has these terms missing (see section 1.4b in my thread link below).

 

Having blown my copies up I do believe that the back is actually the back of the front (not two separate docs) but does the above missing terms make it unenforceable or even improperly executed?

 

My thread (links in post 26)...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/163837-toxic-mbna-2.html#post1919033

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Great thread steven4064!

 

I came across this from militantconsumers thread.

 

Under the s18 multiple agreements post you did mention about top up loans having seperate categories (restricted use to repay existing amount and unrestricted use the cash) with or without the ppi being there. However you only mention this in relation to secured loans and mortgages.

 

I note in Francis Bennions paper he does use that example but I think that from elizabeth1's original post on the multiple agreements thread itself, that this top ups being multiple agreements argument can also be applied to unsecured lending where a loan has been refinanced through the same lender and this is not properly documented.

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

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Thanks for this thread, Steven. It is nice and tidy with all the relevant information in one place. :D

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jonesey

 

The CCA 1974 mentions a whole load of categories in ss 8-15:

 

regulated, unregulated, fixed-sum, rolling-credit, restricted-use, unrestricted-use, credit-token, debtor-creditor, debtor-creditor-supplies, consumer-credit, personal-credit

 

Any agreement that falls into more than one of these categories is a multiple agreement.

 

In principle that is all agreements eg a 'normal' loan is consumer-credit fixed-sum unrestricted-use. Bennion makes it clear that the requirments of the CCA 1974 must be addressed for each category.

 

In practice, where this matters is where an agreement has two bits that fall into two different sets of categories. THe 2 (or more) bits must be treated as sperate agreements. THat means at the very least that the prescribed terms for each bit must be there.

 

 

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Hello to everyone who has contributed to this forum and thank you for taking the time out to help others - it is greatly appreciated.

 

Below is a copy of my Egg Credit Card Agreement. Can someone please tell me if it is enforceable or not.

 

Further queries/relevant information:

(1) also enclosed was a printout from the internet off the CC terms and condtions, which looks to be from their website circa 2004 by the dates mentioned. This is a seperate doc entirely and has no signatures or any of my info.

(2) On page two there is a tickbox 'for the return of any supporting information sent to Egg'. This is ticked. I am about 90% certain I don't remember sending them any supporting info, and so wouldn't have ticked this box, also the tick is not in my style of writing (sounds silly but my ticks are large and sloppy not small and prescise) and there are marks (are they just folds?) on both docs...has it been doctored, and if so what can I do?

(3) How do I work out the APR / Interst bit, or would anyone help me?

(4) Thanks for looking.

 

PAGE 1 LINK: Image of EGG CCA PAGE 1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

PAGE 1 IMAGE: IMG%5D

 

PAGE 2 LINK: Image of EGG CCA PAGE 2 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

PAGE 2 IMAGE: IMG%5D

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Hi Danny

 

It is a standard Egg credit card agreement which is unenforceable because it does not have the prescribed term giving you your credit limit - it has an 'agreed limit' which is meaningless in terms of the CCA 1974.

 

 

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Crikey....thank you ever so much for that Steven!

 

Just a couple of question if i may...

 

(1) So it's just a simple as sending them a letter telling them this information, and stopping any payments to them? Is there a way round this for them, or is it a clear cut unenforceable agreement?

(2) I know its immoral so I wont be doing it, but what is to stop people who find they have an unenforceable agreement just maxing out their card/transfering another balance over and then saying I'm not paying...what have the banks said about this.

 

Thanks again mate, I fully intend to make a contribution to the site if this comes off.

 

Regards

 

Danny

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I would write in the first instance telling them that they don't have an enforceable agreement and why.

 

You will want to say that the prescribed terms are in schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows no deviation from them. Their agreement does not have the term "stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit." required for a running account credit agreement. It is therefore unenforceable by virtue of s127(3) of the CCA 1974.

 

You could make them a full and final offer as a gesture of goodwill and without prejudice of between 2p and 3p in the pound on the balance, which is what they would get if they sold the alleged debt.

 

 

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Hi,

 

I am new here and think it is great how friendly and helpful everyone is! I am querying 5 cards and am trying to learn as much about the process as possible as I am very nervous about going to a company to do this on my behalf and have to part with so much cash.

 

I too have an Egg card as does my husband. On both our agreement which is available for us to read online it states under 'credit limit' -

'We will set and tell you the Credit Limit from time to time.' We processed the whole application on line and ticked the relevant box for our signature.

 

Is it worth pursuing this with egg as unenforceable? I have sent off the template letters requesting a copy of agreements for the other cards to the relevant companies so am waiting their response.

 

Your advice would be gratefully appreciated.

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Thank you for your earlier replies Steven. A final question if i may. I currently owe £2,500 on the Egg card (the one with the unenforceable agreement) but the credit limit is £8,000. Is there anything to stop me transfering debt from my other credit card (Virgin £4000) to Egg, and then telling them it is unenforceable?

 

I acumulated my debts through living cost whilst having two years off to recover from a head injury as opposed to being a wild spender, and so feel 'less guilty' than if I had simply frittered it away.

 

Any further advice is welcome, and greatfully received.

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These ar online applications and Egg seem to get those right. I am pretty sure that both of these will be enforceable. Ticked box counts as signature post 2004

Steven does this go for all online apps post 2004 that if there is a tick in the box then that surfices? have a tesco one that not posted up yet.

muffintop

Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008

 

CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON

 

if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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a point to note with electronic agreements

 

firstly,

 

they would need to show that you did indeed put the tick in the box, they normally document the IP address, and email address used in the application , otherwise anyone could simply claim that you ticked the box and that was that.

 

secondly and most importantly, with most online agreements, there is a blurring of the two agreements

 

what i mean by this is, when you apply online, you fill in the form etc, so that is the agreement you are sending them. but is it also the agreement they are obliged to send you under s62 or 63? no it cant be can it so they need to also show you were supplied a copy as well

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Steven would they have to provide you with copy of your agreement following your application online via post? in other words still supply valid cca? also how would they proove who would have put the tick in the box if more than one person in the house?

muffintop

Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008

 

CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON

 

if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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HI Steve, have just donated to the site - as a way saying thank you for all your advice. By your last statement am I to take it that what I said is do able, but just not cricket so to speak?

 

It's not just "not cricket" so to speak, it could also be construed as fraudulent behaviour, which carries some very serious legal consequences.

 

CAG's objective is to help with people with debt control and management, and also empowering people to stand up for their rights, getting wrongfully applied charges, debts, defaults etc refunded or corrected.

CAG is not about encouraging people to avoid paying their genuine debts, as this could then be construed as conspiracy to defraud, with similar serious legal consequences. So all the membership and team here are are very careful to avoid encouraging or getting involved in such practices.

 

Your proposed plan of action is something that CAG and it's membership frown upon, and will not encourage, condone or help anyone with.

If you've borrowed the money (regardless of the circumstances why you did), and the contract was fair and legal, then it is something you really owe ought to repay.

Trying to take advantage of a loophole, by switching this to and obtaining the services of another card provider, with the deliberate intention of then making a gain is a fraudulent act (which I believe would come under sec 11 of the 2006 act).

If on the other hand your debt contains or consists of some genuinely unfair charges, then there is nothing stopping you contesting and applying for a refund of those.

 

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...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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