Sainsbury's loan agreement - PPI insurance included on the agreement...

[charlie*]

I am helping my son out and I noticed yesterday that onn his Sainsbury's loan agreement (not credit card) they have included a premium for almost £3000 to cover insurances - payments and death I expect - added to the total repayment sum, then divided out to the number of months.

 

Now, I have heard that in doing this, they have broken with the terms of the CCAct'74 (pre- 2007) thereby rendering the contract unenforceable - and, giving him the chance to recover his money.

 

Can anyone tell me if this is fact, that he does have a case to challenge?

 

He has another from Barclay's.

 

I heard on the early morning radio today, 29th Jan that selling insurance in conjunction with a loan agreement will soon be illegal.

 

Appreciate any comments

 

charlie*

[noomill060]

Yes, charlie.

 

Without going into the ins and outs, PPI premiums added to the debit amount renders the "debt" unenforceable and gives you cause of action to reclaim all PPI premiums and al interest levied thereon at the "Cash Rate"

 

I claimed in this way agauinst Barclays on a Barclaycard account. They gave in without an argument after starting a small claim.

[charlie*]

We have two Sainsbury's cards, my wife and my son and when we asked for copies of both original agreements with signatures on them, they sent them to us - after a bit of see-sawing.

 

On my son's signature page (application - the agreement is on the reverse) it shows at the top right...

 

"Your initial credit limit will be £2000.00"

 

There no other prescribed terms.... but, In a separate box....

 

NOTICE TO CUSTOMER

By signing this agreement you acknowledge that:
a) ......in accordance with the Conditions of Use overleaf etc etc......

 

It is a 2 sided form... but the writing is very small, must be 4 point - it's quite hard to read and is something I would bet my life on that very few except the most fastidious would even try to read. In fact, they wouldn't even bother to turn over. especially as there is no other reference to 'overleaf ' . They really have crammed it all in , the Credit Card Agreement and Conditions of Use.

 

Thing is this likely to be enforceable or not?

 

The other is my wife's....

 

Also 2 sided, it does not show ANY of the prescribed terms between the 4 corners of the signature page, except this ...

 

Credit Agreement Regulated by.....

"I/we agree to be bound by the Conditions of Use as set out overleaf etc etc......"

Now this print on the front page (and the back) is tiny, must be 2 point... I have good eyes but I cannot read the small print on the front page or the back even with my reading glasses on. Have to use a magnifying glass.

 

Can anyone please tell me whether or not these two are enforceable?

 

Thanks very much..

 

charlie*

Edited March 27, 2009 by charlie*

[alangee]

Is it possible to post them up? When were they taken out?

 

Alan

[charlie*]

One was taken out September 2004

 

and the other was (hang on whilst I find the form)

taken out November 2004.

 

Can I get some guidance on using the photobucket... I

have joined, but never used anything like it before.

 

Sorry to be inconvenient

Many thanks

 

charlie*

[alsodada]

Go to the photobucket website and register there. Fairly straighforward.

Scan your documents on to a Paint document (make sure you edit out all personal details including barcodes and reference numbers) and save them.

Upload the documents to your photobucket account and you can then link them to your thread.

[charlie*]

Thanks fellers, I'll see what we can do - joint effort required here

 

charlie*

[charlie*]

mistake, sorry

Edited March 30, 2009 by charlie*

[charlie*]

Here is the first with the agreement.

 

Any comments most welcome, for which

many thanks.

 

Sain 1 picture by js30 - Photobucket

Sain 2 picture by js30 - Photobucket

[cerberusalert]

I'm not totally convinced that these are from the same document. What year was this taken out?

[charlie*]

There are two dates and initials bottom right of the Conditions sheet running vertically....

" GYS.19 05 2002 (ELY.8 06 2003) "

 

The signature date on the app is 23.09.04

Underneath the box is this mark (AP03)

 

charlie

[cerberusalert]

I've posted a letter on your other thread for you to send; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/191989-bcard-have-not-responded.html#post2077987

[charlie*]

Morning all (as George Dixon would say)

 

Ah, those the days, when tv was driven by steam, people saved for what they wanted and the Police Station at Dock Green, blue light n'all was still there.

 

I have one or two questions to ask the answers to which may be useful for others... aside from which, I dunno where else to ask.

 

Does a lender, in this case Sainsbury have to disclose the commission they receive from a single premium PPI policy attached to a capital loan?

 

The Subject Access Request shows the figures. ....... the gross premium (added to the loan) was £3000 and the NET premium paid to the insurer was £1000 for the entire loan term. £2000 is pretty good commission for doing not much, innit?

 

With interest it's quite a bit more. My son is self employed and nets before tax £12000 (has two kids too).

 

He relucutantly accepted the PPI even tho he was told it was optional because he was in a very bad situation with his car without which he cannot earn and needed the money like urgently. Now he is wiser, had he not been in such a panic he would have looked closer and would have discovered he could've got the same policy hugely cheaper and monthly and would have declined. Hindsight is wonderful.... still, he swears he did feel pressured at the time, part of it his own dire circumstance - his car had simply given up on him.

 

I'd also appreciate any thoughts.... he did an s77/78 last year and having only recently discovered Defaults, has found that the DN doesn't comply...

How do you like this.... The Default Notice was dated....24th of the month, (as it happens the given date was 2 days short of 14 clear).

 

Even better, he then received a Termination Notice DATED THE NEXT DAY, the 25th (YES, the same month)... both signed by the same clerk... Hayley Owen.

 

He has another Termination letter on file dated 2 months later, but no earlier dated Default Notice to match... however, as the situation above was all done within 24 hours 2 months earlier, any attempt to remedy their mistake, I think, does not count. Perhaps they're hoping he would not notice.

 

So, what would be a good course of action here? .... the way I see it, recsision of contract could mean that he claims back all the PPI he has paid.... thing is, would this work?

 

We asked in the SAR to provide any and all info regarding the PPI and transcripts of phone conversations.... they sent nothing except a screen shot showing some figures and the premium, net and gross, but later, in a letter they asked for dates and times of telephone conversations which of course is crazy - can they get away with this?

 

Finally, tho I'm sure there are other points to check, they did not state that the premium could have been paid monthly or that he might seek another quotation. Seems to me that this is one reason we have the Fin Serv Act... to stop banks using their priviledged position in the marketplace from selling for commission.

 

I ask the above question re disclosure because they are FSA registered and those selling insurance are supposed to declare commission.

Lastly, would PPI have been suitable for a self employed guy in October of 2004?

 

If there is a standard letter that I might adapt if this can be a go-er, any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Charlie

 

bump... any thoughts please

Edited January 16, 2010 by charlie*