Lunar Jim vs NatWest credit card

[lunar jim]

I sent of the initial CCA letter to NatWest today. What's the chances of them being able to produce an enforceable agreement?

[lunar jim]

Doh, I made a typo in the account number... I received the attached letter back from NW today, so I'm about to post a new request with the correct account number.

 

It would seem that NatWest have a CCA team... Also, they returned my initial letter to me, which was stamped 'RECEIVED BY SPEC/REC DEL' in red.

 

[btonbadger]

Doh, I made a typo in the account number... I received the attached letter back from NW today, so I'm about to post a new request with the correct account number.

 

It would seem that NatWest have a CCA team... Also, they returned my initial letter to me, which was stamped 'RECEIVED BY SPEC/REC DEL' in red.

 

 

Ah the lovely Miss Bennett. She wouldn't know a valid CCA if she saw one.

 

If you applied for the account online in the early part of 2000 onwards I'm confident they probably don't have the original. A customer services advisor from Nat West admitted to me that they didn't keep the originals for those who applied online. I received a badly scanned page 3 of a 3 page document and a year later they still haven't found the original.

 

Bless em, I hope they really appreciated all that extra storage space they gained by shredding/chucking out the old agreements.

 

bb

[lunar jim]

Ah, this one's for Mrs. Lunar. Wasn't online but it was after 2000 IIRC

[btonbadger]

Ah, this one's for Mrs. Lunar. Wasn't online but it was after 2000 IIRC

 

Might still be ok, they weren't the sharpest tools in the box at that time. Post it up once it arrives and we'll take a look.

 

From my point of view and to give you an idea of what to expect... I'm a year and a month since they defaulted on the 12+2 days. They sent me through an unenforceable agreement, spend SOME time looking for the missing pages, rang me told me that they didn't have them.

 

It was passed onto Tritron (in house) then to Green & Co (in house solicitors) then Intrum Justicia (acting on behalf of, rather than having bought the debt). I've not heard a word for over a month, and generally each "outfit" goes away when I explain i'm waiting on the missing pages and am recording all their calls for my records.

 

They haven't sold the debt on to an external dca yet either, but I don't know what timescale they work to in that respect. In some ways i'm looking forward to that, as I want to gather evidence of them trying it on

 

bb

[lunar jim]

Hmm, here's a thought: my mortgage is with Nat West. It's a tracker and it's doing really well with the way interest rates are at the moment! I've also *never* missed a payment, the mortgage is alway paid before everything else.

 

How susceptible am I to retaliation if I e.g. dispute the account due to lack of a CCA? I'm not overly worried; back in 2007 I claimed a couple of grand back in bank charges without the bank playing silly beggars.

[lunar jim]

A whole load of pages from NatWest arrived today. I'll post them up

[lunar jim]

Response letter to CCA

 

[lunar jim]

Application form:

 

[lunar jim]

CCA #1:

 

[lunar jim]

The card was lost one time and a replacement issued. A copy of the letter was sent for some reason:

 

[lunar jim]

CCA #2:

 

[lunar jim]

They also sent their General Conditions leaflet which I haven't scanned.

Edited February 21, 2009 by lunar jim

[lunar jim]

Ok, here is my take on things:

 

The initial application form makes no reference to any of the prescribed terms and is therefore not an enforceable agreement.

 

CCA #1 I believe is the one from when the account was taken out. Looking at the copy I've been presented with it does not appear to be the reverse side of the application form. While it does contain the prescribed terms it does not make any reference to the account holder, nor is there a signature so unless they've hidden it and not told me then I can't see how it is inforceable.

 

CCA #2 I believe is their current version, like CCA#1 it has prescribed terms but doesn't refer to the account holder.

 

I believe this bundle they've sent me is unenforceable. Could someone please confirm, or put me right? Thanks

[davey77]

I would agree. It's unlikely that page was on the back of the application form and the application form alone isn't an agreement. Merely a pre-contractual application for credit.

 

I would suggest the CPR route now to find out if they have anything else to offer.

[lunar jim]

Thanks for confirming that Davey. I've sent a letter confirming the account is in dispute; ball is in their court so I'll wait for their response and decide what to do next.

[lunar jim]

Well, I sent the letter above, stating that what they sent was an application form etc. etc., informed them the account was in dispute and to not chase me for payment etc. etc. I heard nothing back from them until today, when they have threatened to pass the account to a DCA.

 

I want to write back to them, reminding them of their legal obligations due to the account being in dispute. I'm just browsing the library for a template but can't find it. Could someone please post it here, or a link? Thanks

 

[davey77]

To be honest you can send polite requests and remind them of the CCA requirements until the cows come home.

 

I think you need to take a tougher stance and start the CPR request rolling.

Have you done a SAR?

 

If the application form page and the CCA.No1 could be shown to be part of the same document then they have a valid agreement but without page numbers to indicate they are page 1 & 2 respectively, they are, for now relying on their word alone that those pages belong together.

 

Other side of the coin is you cannot conclusively prove that the other page wasn't part of the application form either so it's kind of in limbo as i see it.

 

Best course i would say is to glean as much information out of them as possible with a SAR and CRP 31.16, hope they slip up with an admission that could be useful to you, or send you different pages stating 'this is the other side of the application form etc' which would make them look foolish and deceptive regarding the information they are supplying you.

[lunar jim]

I'm a bit nervous about this one now, squinting at the small print above the signature box it references the terms and conditions on the reverse. The only thing I have to go on is the fact that it has been presented to me on two different sheets of paper and that the overall quality of the two sheets is very different, hence they appear to be unconnected.

 

Is it worth progressing it like this? Or do you think I should try and get back onto a payment plan with them?

[42man]

Did they send you a default notice LJ ?

[lunar jim]

Did they send you a default notice LJ ?

 

No default notice has been received...

[abbacus]

In due course you will get their "this is all you're getting, so there" type of letter which effectively confirms they can't produce the agreement because they have shredded it. But they will never admit it!