Now I'm REALLY annoyed.

[PhiltheBear]

I wrote to Mercers (Bcards in house poodle lawyers/DCA) asking for a copy of their complaints procedure threatening them with the Ombudsman and used the usual template here for asking for a copy of my agreement with them.

 

I've just had a response from B'card "Customer Relations Dept". It says, amongst other things:

 

Our Understanding of Your Complaint

You would like Barclaycard to provide you with the folowing:

 

• Validation of the debt with the actual accounting
  
• Verification of any claim that we have against you with a signed affidavit or signed invoice
  
• A copy of the contract binding both parties.
  

What we have done to resolve your complaint:

Please find enclosed the following documents:

 

• A signed copy of your application form which advised you that "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms".
  
• A copy of your terms and conditions at the time your Barclaycard account was opened.
  
• A copy of your last month's statement of account
  

 

What they've included is:

a) An application form - which doesn't mention, anywhere, the Consumer Credit Act. Nor does it state that it's a credit agreement.

b) A copy of "Conditions of Use" - which doesn't mention, anywhere, the Consumer Credit Act or 'credit agreement'

c) A copy of the most recent statement.

 

How can they be so stupid? They quite obviously haven't replied to my requests and their answer contradicts itself. This is obviously an unenforceable agreement.

 

More importantly, what do I do now? Obviously, I can complain to the Ombudsman. But, is there any point? Will they stop B'card?

 

Or, can I take B'card/Mercers to court for damages for causing me stress for trying to claim an unenforceable debt?

 

In short, how can I now make B'card and its envoys pack up and p**s off?

 

I'd appreciate your replies.

[the_shadow]

I wrote to Mercers (Bcards in house poodle lawyers/DCA) asking for a copy of their complaints procedure threatening them with the Ombudsman and used the usual template here for asking for a copy of my agreement with them.

 

I've just had a response from B'card "Customer Relations Dept". It says, amongst other things:

 

Our Understanding of Your Complaint

You would like Barclaycard to provide you with the folowing:

 

• Validation of the debt with the actual accounting
  
• Verification of any claim that we have against you with a signed affidavit or signed invoice
  
• A copy of the contract binding both parties.
  

What we have done to resolve your complaint:

Please find enclosed the following documents:

 

• A signed copy of your application form which advised you that "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms".
  
• A copy of your terms and conditions at the time your Barclaycard account was opened.
  
• A copy of your last month's statement of account
  

 

What they've included is:

a) An application form - which doesn't mention, anywhere, the Consumer Credit Act. Nor does it state that it's a credit agreement.

b) A copy of "Conditions of Use" - which doesn't mention, anywhere, the Consumer Credit Act or 'credit agreement'

c) A copy of the most recent statement.

 

How can they be so stupid? They quite obviously haven't replied to my requests and their answer contradicts itself. This is obviously an unenforceable agreement.

 

More importantly, what do I do now? Obviously, I can complain to the Ombudsman. But, is there any point? Will they stop B'card?

 

Or, can I take B'card/Mercers to court for damages for causing me stress for trying to claim an unenforceable debt?

 

In short, how can I now make B'card and its envoys pack up and p**s off?

 

I'd appreciate your replies.

 

Someone more knowledgeable will be able to answer properly but as I understand it.... you cant!

 

If you take them to court there is the chance that the document you say is unenforceable will be classed enforceable by a judge (a couple of judgements recently have come in that way )

 

The debt still exists and has your name against it... they just cant take the risk of taking you to court to enforce it.

 

After 6 years the default they add to your credit reference file will drop off but you could be chased by other DCA's who sell on old bad debts but you can send them a statute barred debt letter.

[slick132]

Hi Philthebear,

 

This is currently BC's standard response, as you'll see if you read other threads in this forum.

 

There's an alternative strategy being tried at the moment. Read about it here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

I don't think suing BC for strees is a viable option at this point.

[PhiltheBear]

Thank you for the replies. If I may pose the question again - Is there anything to be gained by either:

 

a) Going to the Financial Ombudsman with a formal complaint - stating the blindingly obvious fact that the Bcard agreement isn't valid and asking them to rule that Bcard should give up.

b) Writing to Barclays again - pointing out that their response is too stupid for words and suggesting they cease, desist and (better yet) write off the debt?

 

NB - I wouldn't use those exact turns of phrase

 

I forgot to mention that Bcard have refused to deal with my appointed representative on this - which adds to my case with the Ombudsman - and that I'm currently on JSA which means that the worst the court would do if Bcard took me to court would be to make me pay £1 per month. OTOH it also means I don't pay court fees and could probably get legal aid....

 

Oh, and I also wrote to Scotcall telling them that as B'clays hadn't supplied a legal agreement that I'd consider any demands from them for money as attempting to gain a pecuniary advantage by deception. Haven't heard back but what would you expect?

[slick132]

Hi PTB,

 

Does the application form in item (a) above actually have your signature on it.

 

You say BC refused to d/w your appointed rpresentative - did you send BC a written authority confirming this person may act on your behalf. Was this an individual (family or friend) or a Company you chose to represent you.

[PhiltheBear]

Hi PTB,

 

Does the application form in item (a) above actually have your signature on it.

 

It does. But it is just that - an application form. It isn't, in any way, shape or form, a credit agreement. In fact the word 'credit' doesn't even appear on the application or in the 'Conditions of Use'.

 

You say BC refused to d/w your appointed rpresentative - did you send BC a written authority confirming this person may act on your behalf. Was this an individual (family or friend) or a Company you chose to represent you.

A company. I've replied to each letter Bcard/Mercers have sent pointing this out and asking them to deal only with my rep - but they continue to write only to me. I know that my rep has written to them and made an offer but they refused to accept it. (That was about a year ago - and my situation has got worse since then).

[slick132]

Hi PTB,

 

If you have appointed a Claims Co to d/w matters, BC should write to them direct about any charges claim or challenge to the Credit Agreement.

 

However, BC will continue to write to you about all other matters re the a/c, particularly if they feel the a/c is out of order and they do not consider the a/c to be In Dispute.

 

Are the Claims Co not d/w the question of the enforceability of the a/c.

 

There's no reason for any charges reclaim to be taking so long. Simple reclaims are being sorted within a matter of 2 - 6 weeks here.

 

Even if the Reclaim Co is trying to claim higher interest, filing a Court Claim for this should take place 4 weeks after the initial claim letter was sent off.

 

Time for you to sort out what your Reclaim Co are doing, and get them to d/w matters relating the Credit Agreement, etc, as well as the easy charges reclaim.

 

If you don't think they are doing the reclaim job for you properly (it doesn't sound like it so far) why not disinstruct them on the basis of their failure to provide you with a prompt and professional service.

 

Then YOU will get the full benefit of any charges refunded.

[PhiltheBear]

Hi PTB,

 

If you have appointed a Claims Co to d/w matters, BC should write to them direct about any charges claim or challenge to the Credit Agreement.

 

However, BC will continue to write to you about all other matters re the a/c, particularly if they feel the a/c is out of order and they do not consider the a/c to be In Dispute.

 

Are the Claims Co not d/w the question of the enforceability of the a/c.

 

There's no reason for any charges reclaim to be taking so long. Simple reclaims are being sorted within a matter of 2 - 6 weeks here.

 

Even if the Reclaim Co is trying to claim higher interest, filing a Court Claim for this should take place 4 weeks after the initial claim letter was sent off.

 

Time for you to sort out what your Reclaim Co are doing, and get them to d/w matters relating the Credit Agreement, etc, as well as the easy charges reclaim.

 

If you don't think they are doing the reclaim job for you properly (it doesn't sound like it so far) why not disinstruct them on the basis of their failure to provide you with a prompt and professional service.

 

Then YOU will get the full benefit of any charges refunded.

 

There seems to be slight confusion - I'm not trying to reclaim anything. My situation is that I stopped work to look after my partner when she was diagnosed with cancer and was unable to pay the credit card bill(s). Subsequently, I haven't been able to find work (bizarrely I worked in banking/IT and did a business PhD in Credit Control) and, therefore, am drawing JSA. Because the phone calls / letters were causing my partner distress I employed a 'debt agency' for a fixed fee, which I was happy to pay. (I'm not sure what the correct description of them would be). They have written to my creditors explaining my position and, with the exception of Lloyds and Barclaycard, have reached a position of understanding - and I'm very happy with what they have done.

 

However, both Lloyds and B'card write directly to me - either by themselves or via their various nom de plumes - Mercers, Scutari,... - even though they initially acknowledged receipt of offers from my representative. They have both been contacted by myself and my representative pointing out the obligation only to deal with my representative but seem unable to do so. Therefore, although I'd prefer not to, I will deal with them directly as I'm 110% positive that neither will take me to court - both because I have zero assets and I'm drawing benefits and also because neither has an enforceable agreement.

 

The silly thing is that if I were to be employed again at even 1/2 my previous income I could pay off the debts very quickly - inside a few weeks. But because of their hard headed attitude and their 'bully boy' tactics I've decided that whatever I can do to thwart them I will. I have no problem making a complaint to the Ombudsman - but I'm not going to waste time on it unless I get something positive out of it.

 

Interestingly, B'card is still sending me statements every month with interest being added but Lloyds have ceased to do so. Whether that means that I could sue B'card to remove added interest after being told that I dispute their claim would be quite interesting as I could then get a ruling about the legality of their 'agreement' - and my legal fees would be nil.

[slick132]

Hi Phil TB and sorry if I've made 2+2 = 3.

 

So are you using CCCS, National Debt Helpline or someone similar to help with debt management.

 

Have a read of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines in my signature below. Specifically, section 2.8© may be worth drawing to the att'n of BC and anyone else who is not palying fair.

 

The trouble is that the OFT may not have the clout to effectively enforce what are, after all, just guidelines and NOT law.

 

The link I gave you in post #3 may well be worth trying.

 

It is sickening that these CCard Co's will not show one ounce of decency when d/w genuine cases and they deserve to lose their right to such debts.

Edited January 22, 2009 by slick132
typo

[PhiltheBear]

Hi Phil TB and sorry if I've made 2+2 = 3.

 

So are you using CCCS, National Debt Helpline or someone similar to help with debt management.

 

Yes, it's a small local company - one man band - but the guy has previously been bankrupt himself and is very much on the side of the debtor

 

 

Have a read of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines in my signature below. Specifically, section 2.8© may be worth drawing to the att'n of BC and anyone else who is not palying fair.

 

The trouble is that the OFT may not have the clout to effectively enforce what are, after all, just guidelines and NOT law.

 

The link I gave you in post #3 may well be worth trying.

 

Thanks - I'll investigate further.

 

It is sickening that these CCard Co's will not show one ounce of decency when d/w genuine cases and they deserve to lose their right to such debts.

 

Couldn't agree more. I genuinely believe that there are an awful lot of people (more by the day) who are falling foul of these tossers through no fault of their own and who don't want to welch on the debt - they just need a breathing space to get sorted. Happily, I do have a banking background and I have been able to tell someone on the phone that they are lying when they claim something has happened - because I know exactly what does happen in the underlying system.

Edited January 22, 2009 by slick132
typo in MY quote

[slick132]

Going back to the question of charges, I assume there are some on the BC a/c.

 

If so, are moves being made to reclaim these. This will reduce the debt owing on the a/c and lower the int't they are (wrongly) charging each month.