Personal guarantees given for business debt.

[Bona]

in any proceedings you can request copies of agreements under cpr 18

 

Wanda

 

if they take repossession proceedings they have to prove that it is the only way that you can pay of your debt have they pu a charge on house

[Fluffystuff]

in any proceedings you can request copies of agreements under cpr 18

 

Wanda

 

if they take repossession proceedings they have to prove that it is the only way that you can pay of your debt have they pu a charge on house

Yes Bona by way of a 2nd mortgage, though extremely naievely didn't realise that this is what would happen when we signed the PG !

What I mean by that comment is that we were obviously aware that we were securing the business debt against both our properties (begrudgingly and under duress as I've stated before) but didn't realise that a charge would be listed against it as a 2nd mortgage with all the implications that that brings!! Would there have been extra paperwork relating to the charge as I can only remembering signing the PG document or would that have been it? God, I feel so stupid now !!!

Bona, thanks for everything so far. wj

[SHELBELLE]

Bona & Wanda

 

I too have a 2nd charge , but don't recall it being through a 2nd mortgage?? I thought that the 2nd charge sat there until you sold your property on and then any 2nd charge would be settled after the main mortgage??

 

So if a repossession proceedings commence the bank have to prove that you cannot settle the debt in other way..that is interesting as I have on numerous ocassions offered to repay them at what I can afford and it has been rejected!! All in writing!! Good point I think.

 

Still ,I am sure Wanda and myself would like to know, how does the 2nd charge or repossession proceedings work in realtion to the main mortgage company? Can they take priority or order the such over the mortgage company?

 

I am seeking a local business debt solicitor to see if they can enlighten us??

 

S.B.

[Bona]

Ok if they have a charge on your house and you pay the interest on the loan and possible something on i think im right in saying the court wont let them sell we had a charging order on and I asked the judge if they could force a sale and he said NO they had to get a court order and it would not be given very easily and to keep paying

[Fluffystuff]

Bona,

Does this apply when there is a personal guarantee in place?

 

Are you able to answer my question in #52 concerning additional paperwork for the charge?

 

Thankyou

[Bona]

You should have signed a charge you can find out at the landregistry for I think 12 you can go on line a check exactly what is charged against your property ours was put on bu a creditor who had a Judgement but you can also agree to the charge if you signed only a personal gaurentee and not a charge I think they have to write and teell you and then you can object if they apply to the court there is a hearing

[Fluffystuff]

Bona, please excuse my misunderstanding but are you saying that the personal guarantee acts as authority to place the charge but in any case we should have received separate notification that a charge would be or already had been placed?

Edited February 7, 2009 by wandajane
Spelling and clarification of point

[Bona]

Ok you signed a personal guarentee ie if your business could not pay there debts you would, if they wish to enforce the guarentee they give you 30 days to comply if you dont they can 1. bankrupt you the reciever would then sell the house and pay them but if the debt is sercured by a charge they cant bankrupt you as far as I can remeber. so they have to apply to the court for a sale you either singed a charge or they applied for one where you should have been informed

[Bona]

There seems to be two types of charges a second charge as a mortgage where if you default on payments they can repossess and a chargeing order which means that it safegaurds the money owed to a debtor but they cannot make you sell your house you need to see which of these applies to you and what papers they hold

[dhoom]

wandajane

 

were you asked to seek independant legal advice before offering the guarantee/charge.

[dhoom]

 

The PG will take a different format to any CCA or other loan agreement.

 

One such format Barclays use is here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/business-claims-bank-charges/132425-business-account-chasing-me.html#post1434474

[JonCris]

As an aside it's important to be aware that a CO, unlike an ordinary debt OR even a mortgage, there is NO Statute of Limitation on recovery

[Fluffystuff]

Could I clarify please, I am not talking about a charging order but a 2nd mortgage charge as a result of a Personal Guarantee.

 

Can anybody help with this? On checking the Land Registry details for my home, the charges listed are all dated the same i.e. the date on which we purchased the property in 2002. The PG that the bank are claiming against was signed in 2005 so does that mean that no 2nd mortgage charge has been lodged??

 

Thanks.

[Bona]

Looks like it if they have not got a charge then they have to ask you to repay in a time limit then get a Judgement and then issue a stautory demandd at which time you can use your house as security. Do you have charhges on the accounts if so you can set them of they are illegal me thinks

[SHELBELLE]

Wanda I have sent you a PM

 

 

S.B.

[Bona]

Any Up date

[Fluffystuff]

Still working on it Bona, will post updates as and when but meanwhile thanks again for all your help. wj

[juliex]

hi

reading some posts about personal guarantees for business loans, we have one had it for a year, business ticking over,,,, but what happens if it does not.... no mention on this about my house,,, does this mean i will lose it,,,, if business goes worse ok at minute just need advice

 

thanks

juliex

[JonCris]

If you gave a PG then ALL of your assets/possessions are subject to liquidation/sale to meet your liabilities in the event your business fails

 

However if you signed such an agreement WITHOUT being told of the possible consequences (& can prove IT) then you may have grounds for having the PG voided as unenforceable

[juliex]

hi john chriss

 

thanks for your reply what if you are a limited company does the same thing apply,

 

thanks

 

julie

[Fluffystuff]

Yes, Juliex, the same applies to a Limited Company.

 

 

 

For the attention of any prolific writers of complaint letters.

 

I have at last had a response to some of my queries from my 'advisors' though I now use that term lightly.

I have never received such a crass and accusative response (by email or otherwise) from anybody let alone a 'professional business' and I think I can see a parting of the ways coming along. As some of you on here have already pointed out, they didn't appear to be helping me atall, sadly I have to admit this is the case.

I do not want to divulge the full contents of their e-mail here but if anybody wants to help with a suitable retort, I will PM you the details.

 

Meanwhile, I'd like to thank everyone here who has already provided me with invaluable information and I hope that as it now appears that I will have to go this alone (i.e. without so-called professional advisors), that you will continue to do so. I am really most grateful. x

[jansus]

Have you actually heard anything else from the bank yet?

[JonCris]

hi john chriss

 

thanks for your reply what if you are a limited company does the same thing apply,

 

thanks

 

julie

 

 

PG's are requested by the lender only in the case of limited companies because if your not limited your personaly liable anyway

[Fluffystuff]

Hi Jansus,

 

No, we have heard nothing from the bank since their letter received 21st January - see #7.

[Fluffystuff]

Hi all,

 

Well I think I now have an answer as to why our 'advisors' have been acting the way they have. Don't ask me what but 'something' made me google the man behind the 'business'. Now all becomes clear - not a pretty picture!!??

 

So, I am definately going to need all your help now more than ever as I guess I'm going to have to go right back to the beginning with Lloyds and start afresh.

I guess the first communication will be to inform Lloyds that 'advisors' no longer have auth to act for us and to request copies of all paperwork - could anyone advise me on how to word this letter please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

wj