Capstone selling my house for £70k less!

[cannylass315]

Hello Everyone,

 

I have not posted on here before but have used the advice given to many others on quite a few occasions. We had our house repossessed by Capstone on 9th December 2008. We had fought this for 2 years on and off and finally the judge ruled in their favour which was a major shock as we have 2 young children and had nowhere else to go. I buried my head in the sand and didn't really face up to the reality soon enough. Anyhow that,s happened now and time to move on.

 

As much as we loved our house and had put so much money and work into it we looked into this as a fresh start but hadn't banked on Capstone still playing the dirty card.

 

We bought our house 5 yrs ago for £180k. At the time it had no kitchen and bathroom and it was pretty much a shell. We have since spent £40k doing it up adding new driveway (didn't have one), full double glazing (sash windows £10k), new kitchen (£15k), new downstairs toilet etc. etc.

 

We remortgaged with Capstone 3 yrs ago for £195k and at the time they valued the house at £230k - BEFORE WE HAD DONE ANY OF THE ABOVE WORK!

 

They have now put our house on the market for £179k!!! This does not even cover the mortgage payment let alone the £25k secured loan from Welcome.

 

What can we do? Can I get an injunction to stop the sale and force them to sell it for higher? I understand the market has dipped but not that much. If markets were okay our house would be valued at £250k as other houses have sold for this amount last year but I accept the market is bad and would have at least expected them to market it for £230 at least.

 

Can anyone tell me what I can do - I am so angry with them. I understand they had to repossess - we genuinely couldn't afford it anymore but now I want to fight them all the way. They really are taking the mickey now and I will not be taken for a ride by these companies any more.

 

What can I do?

 

Regards

 

 

 

Fiona

[paulson1985]

Hi Fiona,

 

Did you have the house independantly valued before the repossesion?

 

The same thing happened to me a few years ago and the BS sold my house for less than the value, they also added on charges etc and came after me for a £35k shortfall.

 

 

If they sell the house for much less than you think it is worth they will send paperwork asking you to make an offer to pay the difference and asking you to sign it to repay the debt DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING OR ADMIT THE DEBT IN ANYWAY.

 

Whatever you do do not sign any paperwork they send you and ask for a breakdown of charges added.

 

If the house has been valued in the fairly recent past for much more than they sold it for write to the mortgage company or the solicitor dealing with it admitting nothing, and tell them that if there surveyor over valued it to take it up with them.

 

I do not know if you can make a case out of this but I tried this tactic and heard nothing since.

 

GOOD LUCK

 

BUT REMEMBER DO NOT ADMIT ANYTHING, AND DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING

[gizmo111]

I understand the market has dipped but not that much. If markets were okay our house would be valued at £250k as other houses have sold for this amount last year but I accept the market is bad and would have at least expected them to market it for £230 at least.

 

Some have gone down by around 30 % - which would be about the right valuation of £179k now for a quick sale. When did you last have it valued?

[cannylass315]

Hi guys and thanks for your replies. Paul, no we didn't get it valued beforehand - in hindsight I wish I had now but we genuinely thought the judge would rule in our favour. If anyone is reading this threatened with repossession get your house valued yourself just in case.

 

Gizmo - the last valuation was done 3 years ago by SPML for £230k before we had done any improvements/additions. According to Zoopla the market in our area has fallen by 11%?

 

Our next door neighboor sold her one bedroom flat last month for £140k and there is a 3 bedroom flat up for sale in our road for £160k?

 

If it sells for £179k we will have a shortfall of £30k to mortgage company and £25k to Welcome Finance for secured loan - not looking good really and that's before all the interest and other charges they are going to pile on.

 

Should I get a solicitor? I have complained to the Financial Ombudsman who have written to Capstone but don't think that will get us anywhere. I have also tried to get into CAB but they are snowed under and can't see me for at least a week. I am scared it will get sold soon as I saw a guy standing at the front door when I drove past earlier and my neighbour says she has seen lots of people coming and going!

 

It's a lovely house and we have done it up really well - someone will get a real bargain.

 

I have to do something to stop this happening. Any legal people I can contact?

 

Regards

 

 

 

Fiona

[gizmo111]

Bear in mind a repossesed house will be priced for a quick sale - speak to the local estate agents and ask their opinion on house prices in the area.

Use these calculators to work out if it is a reasonable price or not.

House Prices home page

HBOS PLC - Housing Calculator - House Price Calculator

[jansus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/174886-kensington-mortgages.html

 

 

See the link on post 16 on this thread.

 

There are certain proceedures the lender is supposed to adhere to when selling the property. They have to act in your interests as well as their own.

 

i.e get three valuations and market it for a certain time before auction etc.

 

And yes your advice is correct always go to court and use case law to try and sell your house yourself if at all possible. As soon as a house becomes empty it is an obvious target for buyers to make silly offers.

 

There are many similar cases to your unfortunately and I will link to another one in a minute - unfortunately it is a long read - but has some interesting links.

 

Finally really sorry to hear about your situation and hope the FOS being involved can help.

[jansus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/34094-mortgage-creditagricole-birminghammidshires-halifa.html

 

 

Sorry!

 

It is long but has some good info on it and if you need some help you can post on it and Tideturner may help

[jansus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/repossessions/177515-eviction-hearing.html

 

 

See post ( I think 41) link to the FSA hand book and the section on arrears and possessions.

[jansus]

From the Council of mortgage lenders

 

Here is some information on what happens after a property has been taken into possession. If you are worried about losing your home see our consumer guide: Help if you are worried about your mortgage.

 

• What happens to your mortgage debt after your home is repossessed?
  
• What will the lender do if there is a shortfall?
  
• How long after the repossession can lenders seek the recovery of the debt?
  
• Does this time limit apply to every case?
  
• What do I do if I have a mortgage related complaint?
  

What happens to your mortgage debt after your home is repossessed?

 

After your lender takes your property into possession they have a legal duty to sell the property for the best price that can reasonably be obtained. The property will generally go on the market as soon as possible and your lender will get independent, expert advice on the price it should be sold for and the best method of sale.

[supersleuth]

Hi Janus/Cannylass,

 

Good news and bad news

 

Bad first. This is a tough one because the banks can (and must) sell at the CURRENT market value. If the price of the house is in line with the price of other comparable houses in the area then there is probably little you can do about the sale price. However, if you can show that the lender is selling below current market value, then you will have a strong argument for breach of trust. In the meantime, keep estate agent details of comparable houses on the market....and,....

 

good news, make sure that you are fully informed about the sale and that you get a full list of the costs/disbursements following the sale. When you get the list of costs, make sure that you write to each company that has applied a cost to you and get a copy of each detailed invoice from each company that has applied a cost to you.

 

Then, first query the validity of each invoice. The costs must be "reasonable" (see your contract). Only "reasonable" costs are contractually payable. You will know what is reasonable, because it will be the costs you would have expected to have paid if you sold the house yourself.

 

Then second, here's a legal principle to fight against the costs. In the mortgage situation there are two people who have possession rights to the property, namely you and the lender.

 

The lender has asserted in court that its right to possession prevails over your right to possession and consequently the court ordered that you give possession to the bank. That does not mean that your rights in the property are extinguished (your rights to possession are extinguished at the date of the sale).

 

Hence, if (or when) they send you a bill for a shortfall, in addition to querying the reasonablness of the charges, I would argue that they should pay you "occupation rent" for the time that they had the property. The "occupation rent" that you charge them is the 'current rental value of the property'. Therefore, arm yourself now, with information from estate agents showing the rental value that you would have achieved from the property. Plus you charge them contractual compound interest on the occupation rent from the date of repossession.

 

I admit that this creative legal solution has never been litigated by a borrower but nonetheless it is an option and there is plenty of case law for the principle that those who enjoy the occupation right must pay occupation rent to those who have been deprived of their right to occupy. The lender has deprived you of your occupation right because the lender CHOSE to exercise its right of occupation to your property.

 

Other than these two suggestions which you can use going forward, in the meantime, try to emotionally let go of your previous home and concentrate your emotional energies on your new home. This is now a clincial business fight. You will be emotionally stronger and thus in a stonger position to take on these sleazybags. As you say, you didn't anticipate the dirty tricks going forward, but you now know, that the fight is still on.

 

So following the sale of your previous home, then get the gloves off and fight them against the extortionate costs of the sale that they WILL try to shaft you for, and hit them back with an occupation rent.

 

BTW, once the lender has accepted the offer, by law they must publish that they have accepted an offer and state the amount of that offer. Look out for that notice in your local press and/or write to the lender to ask them where they publish the notice and/or ask the estate agent that is selling the property where the notice will be published.

 

One further trick is that often ensues in reposession sales is that the person who initially buys often then sells very soon after at a higher price. Regularly check and watch the Land Registry for at least 1 year after the sale. If there is a further transfer at a higher price you will probably be able to argue that the lender's sale was fraudulent transfer and hence, the second sale proves that the lender sold at undervalue. This practice happened alot in the 1990's.

 

Hope these pointers help you to be prepared going forward. In the meantime, there is little you can do regarding the sale of your previous home but much that you can do to protect yourself going forward.

Supersleuth

[jansus]

good advice.

 

Personally If you have evidence that they are selling at that price and reasons why you feel it is low I would back up the FOS involvment with an official letter of complaint now sent recorded post.

 

Plus I would Subject Access Request them to see if there may be arrears acharges that you may be able to claim back at a later date.

 

try and find a line between moving forward but also dont let them get away with not keeping to correct proceedures after all every penny counts.

[supersleuth]

Final point of caution on the Council of Mortgage Lenders.

 

The CML's advice to borrowers is not independent because the CML is the "trade union" of the lenders.

 

Thus, when the CML give advise, it is only the sound bites that is in theory what seems politically correct to say to the borrowers. It is not what happens in practice. So whilst their advise may be reassuring of what is supposed to happen, don't be surprised when they breach all their own rules. There is no force of law behind the CML rules.

 

Supersleuth