Is this Mint/RBS Advanta CCA enforceable?

millymollymoo · March 30, 2009

This one is a thankyou to CitizenB:)!

Thanks for the letter you drafted for me as I received this today.. Chickens!!!!! passed it back saying they have not been fully instructed. emmm hold on it said you were in your last letter.............

citizenB · March 30, 2009

Oh dear, scaredy cats .

It is interesting that not having been fully instructed by their clients, they took the decision to advise that litigation was on the cards ?

citizenB · March 30, 2009

In respect of Saracen's document. If it states "accompanying" then the informatin would not have been on the back or front of the original, but in a separate document.

Also, I dont think that APR is a prescribed term is it. It has to be the interest rate proper. (perhaps someone like steven4064, car2043 ) could confirm that.

saracens · March 30, 2009

Thanks for that Milly do you have a link to a suitable letter to fire back about the conditions overleaf?

I also have a Tesco card (RBS again I know!) that I will write the same letter as they haven't sent me the conditions on the back either. Also the Tesco agreement had my old address on the top of the application form (pre-populated), so although it's signed by me in March 2000, would that invalidate it?

AND...I also sent the CCA request letter to RBS on the same day as the others (9th March recorded delivery, so I know they all arrived on the 10th) and I've had nothing from them yet at all...does that mean they're out of time now with the 12 + 2 rule?

Thanks again...x

millymollymoo · March 30, 2009

Oh dear, scaredy cats .

It is interesting that not having been fully instructed by their clients, they took the decision to advise that litigation was on the cards ?

Yes! CHICKENS and thanks to you!

Lets see if Triton EVER respond as they have declined to do so:rolleyes:

Milly XXX

Series3 · March 31, 2009

MMM

Did you get the current terms and conditions or thosr relating to the card?

Asking because I got the current ones. I need to know should I sak for a copy of the origanal ones thet were out at the time of the card?

Not sure if they should have sent older ones as part of the request?

Thanks

citizenB · March 31, 2009

MMM
Did you get the current terms and conditions or thosr relating to the card?

Asking because I got the current ones. I need to know should I sak for a copy of the origanal ones thet were out at the time of the card?

Not sure if they should have sent older ones as part of the request?

Thanks

Series3, they need to supply the agreement, historic terms (those applicable at the time of of account opening) and current terms.

Series3 · March 31, 2009

thank you for that, is there a template letter I can send out telling them that?

Also egg have sent my £1 PO back twice asking for a sig, I have sent them the In despute letter and nothing else.

Should I just leave it at that and wait for their next move ?

I just didn't want to get into a postal order tennis game with them..

had a few phone calls for both accounts but nothing I can't handle.....they don't like to talk about Corronation Street much...lol although I do keep them up to date on what's going on there..

Thanks for your help and advice.

series3

citizenB · March 31, 2009

thank you for that, is there a template letter I can send out telling them that?
Also egg have sent my £1 PO back twice asking for a sig, I have sent them the In despute letter and nothing else.

Should I just leave it at that and wait for their next move ?

I just didn't want to get into a postal order tennis game with them..

had a few phone calls for both accounts but nothing I can't handle.....they don't like to talk about Corronation Street much...lol although I do keep them up to date on what's going on there..

Thanks for your help and advice.

series3

The letter you need to send th ecompany regarding the no signature is in the link below.

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/572-debt-letter-when-company-refuse-cca-due-to-no-signature-.html

If you havent received anything back from your CCA request (other than your money and a request for a signature) then I would wait until you see WHAT they do send before telling them what they have to :-)

Series3 · March 31, 2009

thanks for that, I have already sent that letter to egg and got it back again, I'll wait to see what they do next. They seem to be in no hurry.

How would I ask MINT to send me the T & C's relating to my CCA?

Should I just wait or send them a letter..

Milly, sorry for using your thread but my CCA is almost the same as your's(apart from the word "can")

Thanks

series3

millymollymoo · March 31, 2009

Hey the more the merrier:)

Milly X

Series3 · April 6, 2009

could anyone point me in the right direction?

I'm looking for a letter to ask MINT for my historic T&C's..

Is there a template?

citizenB · April 7, 2009

could anyone point me in the right direction?
I'm looking for a letter to ask MINT for my historic T&C's..

Is there a template?

This one should be ok, possibly amended to reflect the fact that you have already requested the document. They have refused to provide it for you without a signature which is not acceptable. Include your postal order again and advise that even though they returned it. The CCA request stands from the date they first received it.

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.html

It might also be a good idea for you now to start your own thread.

millymollymoo · April 7, 2009

I FINALLY received a response from Mint to ALL my letters. Unfortunately if FAILS to address anything ever asked in them . I will post it up later as I would like your advice as considering they failed to answer any of my previous letters and this is a one size fits all template response, they refuse to enter into further correspondence.

Numpties!

Milly XX

millymollymoo · April 7, 2009

MMM
Did you get the current terms and conditions or thosr relating to the card?

Asking because I got the current ones. I need to know should I sak for a copy of the origanal ones thet were out at the time of the card?

Not sure if they should have sent older ones as part of the request?

Thanks

Hi Series, They never sent the historic, just the current and today I got a totaly cripe response to all my letters:mad:.

One size fits all response:roll: and they do not wish to enter into any further correspondece with me. Okay well take me to court then you numpties as you have FAILED to comply with pre-action protocols and FAILED to comply with the copy Document regualtions:lol:

Milly Xx

millymollymoo · April 7, 2009

Right heres a recap of what I sent them so that you can judge the reply I received to all of them today!

THIS WAS SENT TO TRITON 22/DECEMBER 2008 when I received a letter from them.

---------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/12/08 received xx/12/08, the contents of which have been noted.

Please note:

I do NOT acknowledge any debt to your company.

I am confused as to your reference to a temporary payment plan review. At no such time have I made a temporary payment plan with you and it is pure fiction to attempt to do otherwise. However I did so with your clients Royal Bank of Scotland in view of taking my responsibilities seriously. Unfortunately, your clients decided whilst in receipt of the payment of £xxx a month of which I had not defaulted on, to then terminate my account and demand the full balance and passed to your agency. This I found particularly distressing and note that their action amounts to Unfair Business Practices and indeed in breach of their obligations of the alleged credit agreement, as well as in breach of their requirements of the Consumer Credit Act.

For reference, I did telephone your clients on xx/11/08, who outright refused to speak concerning the account and provided me with a telephone number to discuss the account with you. I confirm that I made a token payment of £xxxx to you on xx/11/08, though have never been provided with a receipt as to this payment of which until I receive the copy of the Notice of Assignment, will not be making any further payments.

Furthermore please be advised:

Your clients have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account was shown delivered to your offices on Royal Mail Recorded Delivery Track & Trace on xx/11/08 .

On xx/11/08, I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

Your clients have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on xx/11/08.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these under sec.189 whether you are the original creditor or not. I also enclosed the statutory fee of £1.00 for the account which was to be used ONLY for this purpose.

The account number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx had been provided on my CCA request for ease of tracing the original account that would reference the alleged credit agreement with your clients. As they are aware the account number had changed since to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx as above, and their records would have been aware of this by the account being linked after this change and my name and address are the same of which they have used to communicate with me and cannot be used as refusal to comply with the request. A copy of this request of is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 1974 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law as you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to

You or your clients

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference

agency

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

You should also note that any attempt for any ‘door step collectors’ to call at my home will be considered as both harassment and trespassing.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken and relevant authorities, including but not limited to the police, shall be notified in the event of this.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I received the purported CCA as in first post and then sent this:

THIS WAS SENT TO MINT IN RESPONSE TO CCA s.78 REQUEST:

Thank you for your letter dated xx/01/09 received on xx/01/09.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On XX/11/08 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

The alleged agreement that I received on the xx/01/09 is totally unreadable and is of a similar size to that of your very own MINT CREDIT CARD.

As you will be no doubt aware, the Copy Document Regulations requires that documents are easily legible and clearly the terms of the agreement are not easily legible.

What I expect to receive is a true copy of the executed agreement that contains all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and is signed by both YOUR COMPANY and MYSELF as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document along with a true statement of account. The requirements of the Agreement Copy of Documents regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions. Supplying current terms and conditions does not satisfy the request as they do not relate to the card product that may have been applied for.

Furthermore:

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired has expired on the xx/11/08.

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

One further query relates to your comment that the account has not been sold and is currently being managed by Triton Credit Services, please confirm who they are and who regulates them and if they hold a consumer credit license along with a notice of assignment. For your company to have passed my personal information to them you must have had my signed permission contained in the alleged credit card agreement that would of allowed this to happen. Until this proof is received I will not entertain any obligations you believe I may have, albeit I note in a telephone call to your company xx/11/08 your representative stated they no longer held any interest in the account when I tried to make a payment to the account.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.[/font]

I look forward to hearing from you in writing

Yours faithfully,

MILLY

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THIS WAS SENT TO TRITON IN RESPONSE TO THREAT O GRAM:

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Account No/Reference No:−

Your Clients: The Royal Bank of Scotland PLC

Thank you for your letter of x/01/09 received x/01/09, the contents of which have been noted.

Please note:

I do NOT acknowledge any debt to your company.

I am still awaiting your reply to my letter dated x/12/08 reference TCxxx delivered xx/12/08 and am extremely disappointed at your continued refusal to acknowledge any letter that has been delivered to you by sending it seems non personal letters concerning this account that has been assigned to yourselves and ignoring all points raised. I request a copy of the Notice of Assigment to be sent as you continue to expect me to communicate on the above account with your company.

I am also still waiting for a receipt for the payment I made to your company on xx/11/08 , whilst without the full knowledge of my obligations that I may have. Until I am provided with a notice of assignment, as I taken legal advise, to prove your rights to collect on the account, as well as proof that you hold a consumer credit license. I will not be making any attempt to make any form of payment until this request is satisfied, along with your clients obligations to provide the true copy of the alleged credit card agreement which I wish made clear, must contain my permission to allow the account to be assigned to third parties and for them to pass this account to be managed by your company.

I am sure you are aware of your legal obligations of obtaining or asking for money and that by law without identifying whom you are, have no legal rights until my request is satisfied.

I acknowledge no debt to your company and would advise you to communicate this information to your clients whom was the former creditor whom have admitted they no longer have any interest in this account in our telephone call xx/11/08.

Furthermore please be advised:

On xx/11/08, I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under Consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was delivered to your offices on xx/11/08.

I have notified your clients, of which I have enclosed a letter for your information concerning the alleged credit card agreement received xx/01/09 and due to their failure to comply with the CCA 1974 request and Copy Documents regulations, your client remains in default.

I am willing to offer to view the actual true signed original agreement that you must have at a designated Royal Bank of Scotland branch if my request is not fully complied with.

Therefore, your clients have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on xx/11/08.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these under sec.189 whether you are the original creditor or not. I also enclosed the statutory fee of £1.00 for the account which was to be used ONLY for this purpose.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account. The requirements of the Agreement Copy of Documents regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.