How credit cards & bank loans REALLY work - Learn, & this will change your whole life!!

[charlie*]

I am very pleased to see such an interest in the banking [problem]..... of course, there are those who still believe the earth is flat and for those.... and everyone else just to make things absolutely clear in their own minds to take a few minutes and visit the Bank of England website www.bankofengland.co.uk and then search for this...

 

Quarterly Bulletin 2008 Q1/volume 48 No 1 page 103

 

You can read the whole page if you wish, the best bit is in the last paragraph, bottom of the page, left side column, line 4

 

"....... banks (lending banks) create credit by simply increasing the borrowing customer's current account (a broad term no doubt, in our world it means credit cards, loans and mortgages too) which can then be paid away to wherever the borrower wants by the bank writing a cheque on itself".

 

There we are, in a nutshell... there is NO money until it is borrowed... some 97% of all money is a debt to the banks (excluding coinage which is issued by HM Treasury). We work for the banks

 

Now, fellow Caggers........ I am sure that most of us could put together a letter - or an email that we could send to our members of parliament at their local branches or even at Westminster..... WHY?

 

Simple as this..... the Prime Minister, the President, can instruct the Treasury, the US Treasury, HM Treasury to issue as much DEBT FREE MONEY as rhe country requires. They can also tell the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve to get lost..... pay 'em off with honest debt free money.

 

Abraham Lincoln printed debt free money and so did John Kennedy... he also stated he was going to repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 signed by President Woodrow Wilson in return for the presidency (Jekyll Island Meeting 1910... instigated by JP Morgan himself (his bank now pays Blair huge sums for services rendered, ie the dumbing down of Great Britain). Sadly both Lincoln and Kennedy were assasinated for challenging the International Banking Cartel, headed by the Rothschilds of Berkshire (JP Morgan Bank is the New York arm of the Rothschilds).

 

If we made pests of ourselves, surely, our voice must be heard.

 

charlie

Edited November 24, 2009 by charlie*

[Stornoway]

Great, your voice would be heard and we'll do away with money and reintroduce bartering to pay for goods.....

[Stornoway]

Quarterly Bulletin 2008 Q1/volume 48 No 1 page 103

 

You can read the whole page if you wish, the best bit is in the last paragraph, bottom of the page, left side column, line 4

 

"....... banks (lending banks) create credit by simply increasing the borrowing customer's current account (a broad term no doubt, in our world it means credit cards, loans and mortgages too) which can then be paid away to wherever the borrower wants by the bank writing a cheque on itself".

 

There we are, in a nutshell... there is NO money until it is borrowed... some 97% of all money is a debt to the banks (excluding coinage which is issued by HM Treasury). We work for the banks

 

This is simplistic in the extreme. The banks dont just magic the cash into thin air - there are consequences in terms of ;

1. Liquidity

2. Capital

[diddydicky]

oh god, not @im again!

 

yeah yeah and elvis is alive and well and has had plastic surgery

 

the moon landings were filmed in the desert

 

yeah yeah yeah

 

meanwhile, in the real world we are trying to sort our debts out

 

cant you start a conspiracy theory section so that all the nutters can wind themselves into a frenzy all by themselves!!

[Undercover-Elsa]

"The Bore Garden" ?

[diddydicky]

[the_shadow]

"The Bore Garden" ?

 

If there was a smiley that showed clapping, it would be going like a good'un now.

 

 

S.

[rickyd]

Now, fellow Caggers........ I am sure that most of us could put together a letter - or an email that we could send to our members of parliament at their local branches or even at Westminster..... WHY?

 

Simple as this..... the Prime Minister, the President, can instruct the Treasury, the US Treasury, HM Treasury to issue as much DEBT FREE MONEY as rhe country requires. They can also tell the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve to get lost..... pay 'em off with honest debt free money.

 

If we made pests of ourselves, surely, our voice must be heard.

 

charlie

 

Which planet are you living on? Would that be Planet financially naive?

 

If your second point was remotely accurate the government wouldn't have embarrassed the pants off itself and risked certain defeat at the ballot box by revealing the level of public borrowing. They would simply have "told the Bank of England to get lost" and told the Treasury to issue more money.

 

Why do you suppose they didn't do that?

 

You're making the classic schoolboy error of confusing money with credit and wealth and the three are not even remotely similar nor related to each other.

[nuke em]

To quote dicky "yeah yeah yeah

 

meanwhile, in the real world we are trying to sort our debts out "

 

True, this is a debt forum and i guess most of us are all here 'cos of our "debts"!

Each one of us has to work out our own situation in the best way we can.

meantime can i offer this general advice for the yeah, yeah, yeah's on here , i.e

rickyd, the_shadow diddydicky Undercover-Elsa & Stornoway

 

a) whatever currency you posess, keep most of it in a bank

b) whatever stocks & shares you own, keep them all, do not sell them

c) Pay cash if possible, for everything you need/want

d) If you have valuables, old jewelry, precious metals etc that you are not using/don't want, sell them for cash, then put that cash into your bank

e) Watch MSM [main stream media] for key indicators of what is happening in the world today. Try to follow their guidance,

 

Thanks!

that's all for now

Edited November 27, 2009 by nuke em

[the_shadow]

rickyd, the_shadow diddydicky Undercover-Elsa & Stornoway

 

a) whatever currency you posess, keep most of it in a bank

b) whatever stocks & shares you own, keep them all, do not sell them

c) Pay cash if possible, for everything you need/want

d) If you have valuables, old jewelry, precious metals etc that you are not using/don't want, sell them for cash, then put that cash into your bank

e) Watch MSM [main stream media] for key indicators of what is happening in the world today. Try to follow their guidance,

 

Thanks!

that's all for now

 

Sorry, not got time for a discussion, I'm too busy stocking up with tins and batteries in my underground bunker.

 

S.

[diddydicky]

To quote dicky "yeah yeah yeah

 

meanwhile, in the real world we are trying to sort our debts out "

 

True, this is a debt forum and i guess most of us are all here 'cos of our "debts"!

Each one of us has to work out our own situation in the best way we can.

meantime can i offer this general advice for the yeah, yeah, yeah's on here , i.e

rickyd, the_shadow diddydicky Undercover-Elsa & Stornoway

 

a) whatever currency you posess, keep most of it in a bank

b) whatever stocks & shares you own, keep them all, do not sell them

c) Pay cash if possible, for everything you need/want

d) If you have valuables, old jewelry, precious metals etc that you are not using/don't want, sell them for cash, then put that cash into your bank

e) Watch MSM [main stream media] for key indicators of what is happening in the world today. Try to follow their guidance,

 

Thanks!

that's all for now

 

hi nuke em!

 

item b/ keep it in a bank? are you havin a larf or what?

 

which one would you suggest? cap one?, barclays? egg?

 

item c/ we are ALL paying cash (because we can no longer get credit!!)

[nuke em]

hi nuke em!

 

item b/ keep it in a bank? are you havin a larf or what?

 

which one would you suggest? cap one?, barclays? egg?

 

Cui Bono? work that out & you will have your answer

 

item c/ we are ALL paying cash (because we can no longer get credit!!)

i think you mean, "item c/ we are ALL paying cash (because we can no longer get ourselves into MORE DEBT!!)

[nuke em]

Sorry, not got time for a discussion, I'm too busy stocking up with tins and batteries in my underground bunker.

 

S.

 

I understand, you are doing the same as quite a few Governments around the world!

[charlie*]

Hi RickyD....

 

If Lincoln could do, John Kennedy could do it... only a few years ago, then why should we not do it?

 

Maybe I am being naive, but, the precedents have been set and there are voices in America far better acquainted with these subjects than you and I.... even in the Senate, only this year, one man stood up and called for the Federal Reserve Act to be repealed.... for the sake of the nation and the free world. .

 

The monetary system is owned and controlled by a few families.... who backs them up... and in return for what? GREEDY POLITICIANS... not the bankers who make all the money, very few of them know as much as you know.

 

Dennis Healey said... "nothing in politics or commerce ever happens by accident".

 

Sir Josiah Stamp (died 1947) was the chief of the Bank of England....

 

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits"

 

This is a big subject and to get the flavour of it under your tongue you really need to spend many hours studying the whole subject, not just the banking bit.

charlie.

[nuke em]

Correct Charlie!

 

 

----

more info here ( it's USA based) but our system Bank of England etc is the same ! we run the same [problem] system as our American Friends....

 

LESSONS FROM THE JAPANESE:

TIME TO REPLACE SOVEREIGN DEBT WITH SOVEREIGN CREDIT

 

 

Web of Debt - LESSONS FROM THE JAPANESE: TIME TO REPLACE SOVEREIGN DEBT WITH SOVEREIGN CREDIT

[nuke em]

qrt

[shinobi101]

Nuke em,

 

Well done for sticking with this thread for so long. I would have run out of patience ages ago. It's good that a few people seem to understand how fraudulent the system is.

 

The question is how we build a defence based on this. Or maybe even an attack?

 

There are unconfirmed rumours floating around of people getting back every penny they've ever paid on their mortgage, based on contract law, i.e. the bank has provided no consideration for the contract. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

I'm having a bit of an arguement with Barclays about this, but so far they've just completely ignored the question of fraudulent money creation.

[diddydicky]

i wonder why?

[shinobi101]

Of course they want to avoid the issue, but that doesn't mean they should get away with it. The banks are trying to avoid a lot of valid issues at the moment.

 

My thinking is that we should be able to use a CPR request to get the bank's bookkeeping records, which would show where the alleged money came from. It would be literally impossible to get a fair hearing in court without this imformation. We are entitled to a fair hearing aren't we?

 

What these records would typically show is that the bank accepted your promise to pay as an asset. The promise to pay has no real value. When the bank enters the promise to pay into its assets column, it then creates a corresponding liability to balance its books. That liability then becomes your loan. Without your promise to pay, the money would not have existed.

[charlie*]

Hey, Shino..... patience lad, patience, there are people working on these plans...... whatever Barclay's told you, they talk fricking rubbish... WHY?... because their status in the bank is not high enough.... the only people in the banks who know the name of the game can be counted probably on half a finger....

 

I have photocopies (3) of court letters from the US.... Chase Bank Mortgages were tackled by a couple who said.... not afraid perhaps because they have not yet been cowed by people like Blair & Co.... show us the original contract.... bank declined and took the couple to court 'cos they'd stopped paying..... their defense was NO CONTRACT.... we asked to see the contract, bank refused......... soooooo, Judge said to Chase lawyer, where's the contract?........ lawyer said......... My clients have lost it....

judge........ after he'd finished harrumping no doubt....... found for the defendents... WITH PREJUDICE.

 

Same here really, no contract, no case.

 

The yanks seem to be so far ahead of us.... some of my own approaches to the card banks before I found CAG were refused on the gounds that the questions I asked were based on American law.... absolute rubbish as the American Bar (as well as Canada, Australia & New Zealand) is a franchise from the Inns of Court in the City of London.... our law is theirs. Having said that, none of my family have been taken to court - I'm working on a total of 8 cases, 2 loans + 6 cards and I am well satisfied with progress.... what I have found is that the more you know... and let them know you know.... like my knowledge goes outside the CCAct into contract law and money itself, the more you can make them think twice before they start going to court.... Getting rid of DC's and lawyers is not hard.

 

I do use the CAG and the help I have (for which I shall be forever truly grateful) from this forum... it supports my confidence and it supports my earlier challenges under contract law. So, one by one as a family we are winning the fight.

 

It's all down to research..... there are other forums, American, Canadian as well as English... we all have the same laws with some statutory differences......... like... the agreement we all sign for the money is a unilateral contract, invalid the moment it is signed UNDER CONTRACT LAW - read up on contract law... must be bilateral... full disclosure, equal consideration etcetera.

Also, they don't tell you that they DO NOT LEND MONEY.... they are merely

exchangers, one value for another. The money theyprofess to lend you DOES NOT pre-exist the agreement you signed... thus, it was your signature that authorised them to create the "money" out of thin air by making a ledger entry....(Bank of England wweb site confirms) they don't reveal any of this, they just lie thru their teeth... (the whole of our society is based upon a lie) you goto work, you are paid for effort, that's the money they want because they cannot monetise credit without an incoming equal consideration (your IOU) which they can trade in the elite market for money.

 

The last thing I want to do is to appear to lead people away from the CCAct... what I am saying is this....... research into the wider subject is most rewarding... and very, very interesting.... all the things they should teach us about at school, if we lived in an honest society, but, we don't and they don't... they are hypocrites and use us to create their own wealth just as the farmer uses the cows in the field.

 

I've seen somewhere that £800 billion has been added to our debts in recent months....... why, where has it all gone? - has so much been transferred into the pockets of the super rich? - have the banksters (Bank of England) been taking cash out of circulations to exacerbate the crisis (part of the grand plan for global domination)....

 

Why does not the Chancellor of the Exchequer simply order HM Treasury to print and issue into the country as much currency (notes) as we require to avoid the interest bearing debt thrust upon us by the Bank of England?

 

THIS WOULD BE DEBT FREE, INTEREST FREE.

 

Austria did it in the 1920/30's... Abraham Lincoln did it and so did John Kennedy in 1962/3

 

Boy, I get so angry.

Edited December 6, 2009 by charlie*

[rufftuffcluff]

I have 2 unsecured loans, 1 with cahoot, 1 which was with Halifax but which they have sold to Hillesden Securities....total about £18000. I am paying through a debt management co (chiltern). Do I send letters requesting copies of the agreements to the creditors direct or do I get Chikltern to do this?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Rufftuffcluff,

Welcome to CAG

The CCA requests go directly to whoever is chasing you at the moment. The DMC won't do anything in that respect.

You'd do better to start your own thread on this so you can get specific advice on your problem. (This is a speculative discussion thread)

Follow the link below, then click the new thread button.

Links to CCA request letters are in my signature. Be sure to read carefully and amend where necessary.

Well done on starting to take control, you will get all the help you need on here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/

Regards,

Elsa x

[rufftuffcluff]

Elsa thank you so much, Letters gone to Hillesden Securities and Cahoot with £1 postal orders. Will inform my debt Management Co that I have done this out of courtesy to them and to keep them informed what I am doing and will maintain the payments I am making through them for the time being (£80 a month). Still dithering but not as much. regards thowdcodgerat16 x

[rufftuffcluff]

Incidentally didnt mention that I am 74 years old and under the current arrangement will be paying until I am 96.

[shinobi101]

Since most of us know that the entire system is fraudulent, has anyone raised this issue with their bank? What kind of response did you get?

 

Has anyone made any progress in getting loans written off etc?