VG - Vs Northen Rock - Charging Order

[supasnooper]

I am presuming that you have not received an interim Charging Order yet ?

 

Firstly, contact CCCS and do a review of your Income and Expenditure of your DMP. Make sure you build in a cost of living increase on your expenditure as most things will increase in price over the next few months (Food, utility bills, etc.). Ask them to send you a copy of the new I & E.

 

Next, get a defence together to post to the court. This needs to arrive at least 7 days before the hearing and MUST go by Recorded Delivery at least, or if you can get to the court then take it in person.

 

Your defence will list the points you may wish to make :-

 

1/ Have all the other creditors been informed of the hearing ?

 

2/ If not, why not ?

 

3/ I am currently in a Debt Management Plan with Consumer Credit Counselling Service who have structured pro rata offers to all my creditors.

This arrangement has been accepted and has been in place for over ** months with all creditors having frozen the interest.

Even ******* Bank (Complete if you have a debt larger than that of Northern Rock) whose debt is in excess of the CCJ debt have maintained a dignified approach to my Debt Management Plan.

The only creditor that has been the exception is Northern Rock.

 

4/ You should point out any particular hardship which your family would suffer if a charging order was to be requested by Northern Rock and possibly lead to the sale of the home. This is particularly important if the debt is in your name but you own your home jointly so it is not even your partner's debt.

 

5/ You may also wish to apply for a "Time Order" as suggested by rory32 earlier in the thread.

 

When you have completed composing your defence ( not forgetting to add your claim no. at the top of your defence), print off two copies and sign the one you are sending to the court. Attach a copy of your CCCS income and expenditure sheet to this and get it to the court.

 

It is also considered good etiquette to send a copy of your defence to the claimant but that's up to you whether you do or not.

 

I would advise getting to the court at least 30 mins before the hearing, making sure you have a copy of your defence, a copy of your CCCS I&E with you and a notebook to make any notes of points raised you wish to query. ( I would suggest .taking 3 copies of each just in case the judge can't find his\her copy).

Present yourself to the Court Usher who will note that you are attending.

Before the hearing begins, the claimants solicitor will probably approach you and introduce themselves. They may offer guidelines of the procedure and etiquette of the court and how the hearing will proceed. They may also advise of the possible consequences of the final decision the judge may make.

Their solicitor are sure to ask if you will be defending the determination and ask what you will say. It is up to you to how you reply to them. You are not obliged to tell them anything ( that's why it's a hearing so you can put your points across ). They certainly won't tell you exactly what they are are going to say.

 

You will be called for the hearing by the usher stating " Northern Rock v Von Greenbach" and be led to the court room. The room itself will have two tables in a T shape and is not like most peoples image of a courtroom shown on television.

The judge will be seated at the head of the table with yourself and the claimant to be seated on opposite sides on the lower leg of the table.

As you are taking your seat introduce yourself to the judge (addressing a gentleman as Sir and a lady as Ma'am) i.e. Good Afternoon Ma'am, I'm Von Greenbach the defendant.

 

The hearing is informal and tends to be a discussion of the facts and observations of the submissions made to the court ( the judge has a copy of your defence remember ).

As you are a Litigant In Person, the judge may try to explain any legal terms to you and also ask you for your points you wish to make.

 

Speak clearly and unemotionally to make sure you emphasise the points of your defence to the judge to make sure that they have been read.

Also question the claimants solicitor on any point you don't agree with.

 

The judge will then state the decision that they have made to both parties and ensure any points of the decision are clarified and understood.

 

Hopefully, you will come away with a reasonable determination amount set by the judge.

 

Hope this helps. I've probably forgotten a few things but will look at it again later

 

If anyone can add to this, please feel free to do so.

Edited November 26, 2008 by supasnooper
Deleted incorrect info.

[Von Greenbach]

Thanks Supa

I am presuming that you have not received an interim Charging Order yet ?

No, only a CCJ has been awarded.

Firstly, contact CCCS and do a review of your Income and Expenditure of your DMP. Make sure you build in a cost of living increase on your expenditure as most things will increase in price over the next few months (Food, utility bills, etc.). Ask them to send you a copy of the new I & E.

OK, we completed an annual I&E last month.

 

Next, get a defence together to post to the court. This needs to arrive at least 7 days before the hearing and MUST go by Recorded Delivery at least, or if you can get to the court then take it in person.

Will do.

 

Your defence will list the points you may wish to make :-

Thanks for this

1/ Have all the other creditors been informed of the hearing ?

I don't know, should I ring the court and ask?

 

3/ I am currently in a Debt Management Plan with Consumer Credit Counselling Service who have structured pro rata offers to all my creditors.

This arrangement has been accepted and has been in place for over ** months with all creditors having frozen the interest.

Even ******* Bank (Complete if you have a debt larger than that of Northern Rock) whose debt is in excess of the CCJ debt have maintained a dignified approach to my Debt Management Plan.

The only creditor that has been the exception is Northern Rock.

My OH also has a personal load with NR, managed though our DMP, NR wrote sometime ago stating they've accepted the DMP arrangment on there loan.

 

4/ You should point out any particular hardship which your family would suffer if a charging order was to be requested by Northern Rock and possibly lead to the sale of the home. This is particularly important if the debt is in your name but you own your home jointly so it is not even your partner's debt.

I wanted to explain to the judge the psychological / psychiatric issues I've suffered over the years, and how this issue is having a major impact with my medical condition, as 5 minutes have been allocated for the hearing, I don't think I'll have time.

5/ You may also wish to apply for a "Time Order" as suggested by rory32 earlier in the thread.

I'm going to have try and digest the information about time orders, I asked CCCS about this, only to be informed it's something they're not clear on.

 

When you have completed composing your defence ( not forgetting to add your claim no. at the top of your defence), print off two copies and sign the one you are sending to the court. Attach a copy of your CCCS income and expenditure sheet to this and get it to the court.

Will do.

 

It is also considered good etiquette to send a copy of your defence to the claimant but that's up to you whether you do or not.

I'm pretty angry and the way they've dealt with this, considering my own going medical issues, by choice, I'd rather not assist / offer any further information.

 

I would advise getting to the court at least 30 mins before the hearing, making sure you have a copy of your defence, a copy of your CCCS I&E with you and a notebook to make any notes of points raised you wish to query. ( I would suggest .taking 3 copies of each just in case the judge can't find his\her copy).

Present yourself to the Court Usher who will note that you are attending.

Before the hearing begins, the claimants solicitor will probably approach you and introduce themselves. They may offer guidelines of the procedure and etiquette of the court and how the hearing will proceed. They may also advise of the possible consequences of the final decision the judge may make

OK

 

Their solicitor are sure to ask if you will be defending the determination and ask what you will say. It is up to you to how you reply to them. You are not obliged to tell them anything ( that's why it's a hearing so you can put your points across ). They certainly won't tell you exactly what they are are going to say

Should I sy nothing to them then?

 

You will be called for the hearing by the usher stating " Northern Rock v Von Greenbach" and be led to the court room. The room itself will have two tables in a T shape and is not like most peoples image of a courtroom shown on television.

The judge will be seated at the head of the table with yourself and the claimant to be seated on opposite sides on the lower leg of the table.

As you are taking your seat introduce yourself to the judge (addressing a gentleman as Sir and a lady as Ma'am) i.e. Good Afternoon Ma'am, I'm Von Greenbach the defendant.

 

The hearing is informal and tends to be a discussion of the facts and observations of the submissions made to the court ( the judge has a copy of your defence remember ).

As you are a Litigant In Person, the judge may try to explain any legal terms to you and also ask you for your points you wish to make.

I have difficulty digesting information, I also suffer with panic attacks, this part of the process is worrying me, incase I don't put up a good enough defence.

 

Speak clearly and unemotionally to make sure you emphasise the points of your defence to the judge to make sure that they have been read.

Also question the claimants solicitor on any point you don't agree with.

 

The judge will then state the decision that they have made to both parties and ensure any points of the decision are clarified and understood.

 

Hopefully, you will come away with a reasonable determination amount set by the judge.

OK, thanks, NR are bloody $$$$$$$$$$

 

Hope this helps. I've probably forgotten a few things but will look at it again later

 

If anyone can add to this, please feel free to do so.

Thanks so much for your time, and explanation, may I ask one question, in that link within post 11 by rory, it says something like if you're being taken to court contact us, is it worth me contacting them, I'm worried about contacting them in case they're ambulance chasers, and I come unstuck.

[supasnooper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

1/ Have all the other creditors been informed of the hearing ?

 

I don't know, should I ring the court and ask?

 

No don't ring the court. this is one of the questions you'll be asking their solicitor.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

3/ I am currently in a Debt Management Plan with Consumer Credit Counselling Service who have structured pro rata offers to all my creditors.

This arrangement has been accepted and has been in place for over ** months with all creditors having frozen the interest.

Even ******* Bank (Complete if you have a debt larger than that of Northern Rock) whose debt is in excess of the CCJ debt have maintained a dignified approach to my Debt Management Plan.

The only creditor that has been the exception is Northern Rock.

 

 

My OH also has a personal load with NR, managed though our DMP, NR wrote sometime ago stating they've accepted the DMP arrangment on there loan.

 

Well worth mentioning about N R accepting the DMP.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

4/ You should point out any particular hardship which your family would suffer if a charging order was to be requested by Northern Rock and possibly lead to the sale of the home. This is particularly important if the debt is in your name but you own your home jointly so it is not even your partner's debt.

 

I wanted to explain to the judge the psychological / psychiatric issues I've suffered over the years, and how this issue is having a major impact with my medical condition, as 5 minutes have been allocated for the hearing, I don't think I'll have time.

 

You take ALL the time you need. This is YOUR hearing and you have your defence to speak about.

The judge will be very interested in what YOU have to say as it is the judge that has to make a legally binding decision and he\she won't want to have it on their conscience that they got it wrong.

The time allocated for the case is only approximate anyway.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

5/ You may also wish to apply for a "Time Order" as suggested by rory32 earlier in the thread.

 

I'm going to have try and digest the information about time orders, I asked CCCS about this, only to be informed it's something they're not clear on.

 

A "Time Order" is when the monthly amount and payment date is set by the courts after looking at the debtors I & E together with their personal circumstances and cannot be changed by the creditor. However, failure to maintain these payments may result in the creditor returning to court for a Charging Order.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

It is also considered good etiquette to send a copy of your defence to the claimant but that's up to you whether you do or not.

 

I'm pretty angry and the way they've dealt with this, considering my own going medical issues, by choice, I'd rather not assist / offer any further information.

 

It's your choice.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

Their solicitor are sure to ask if you will be defending the determination and ask what you will say. It is up to you to how you reply to them. You are not obliged to tell them anything ( that's why it's a hearing so you can put your points across ). They certainly won't tell you exactly what they are are going to say

 

Should I sy nothing to them then?

 

Again, it's your choice. Personally, I wouldn't but others may disagree

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by supasnooper

You will be called for the hearing by the usher stating " Northern Rock v Von Greenbach" and be led to the court room. The room itself will have two tables in a T shape and is not like most peoples image of a courtroom shown on television.

The judge will be seated at the head of the table with yourself and the claimant to be seated on opposite sides on the lower leg of the table.

As you are taking your seat introduce yourself to the judge (addressing a gentleman as Sir and a lady as Ma'am) i.e. Good Afternoon Ma'am, I'm Von Greenbach the defendant.

 

The hearing is informal and tends to be a discussion of the facts and observations of the submissions made to the court ( the judge has a copy of your defence remember ).

As you are a Litigant In Person, the judge may try to explain any legal terms to you and also ask you for your points you wish to make.

 

I have difficulty digesting information, I also suffer with panic attacks, this part of the process is worrying me, incase I don't put up a good enough defence.

 

As I've stated earlier, the judge has to make a decisions based on facts. Just take your time, deep breath, read your defence notes and be composed before you speak.

Remember, the judge will have these facts of your defence in front of him\her and may ask you questions about your defence just for clarity and understanding.

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by supasnooper

Hope this helps. I've probably forgotten a few things but will look at it again later

 

If anyone can add to this, please feel free to do so.

 

Thanks so much for your time, and explanation, may I ask one question, in that link within post 11 by rory, it says something like if you're being taken to court contact us, is it worth me contacting them, I'm worried about contacting them in case they're ambulance chasers, and I come unstuck.

 

By all means call them if you feel that you need to speak to someone.

I have no experience or dealings with them so I have no personal comments to offer.

They say they are impartial and the call is free.

They may even have some valid pointers for your defence that I may have missed.

OR maybe worth a call to National Debtline who offer free impartial advice as well. Their number is 0808 808 4000

 

Both of the services have been used by others and have been of great assistance from what I have read.

 

 

I hope my answers will be of fortitude and strength to you.

Edited November 26, 2008 by supasnooper
amendment

[Von Greenbach]

I hope my answers will be of fortitude and strength to you.

Yes, they have, I'm sure I'll have more questions, but for the next couple of weeks, I'm just going to concentrate on some kind of defence.

 

Many thanks to you.

 

Edit: One further question, is it worth me asking CCCS for some support / defence, or am I better of handling this myself?

[Von Greenbach]

I'm just looking at some of the questions before starting to complete a defence.

 

When do I ask if my other creditors have been informed of this hearing, do I ask within the defence I'm submitting? Also, will it do more harm than good asking the question? I don't want other creditors jumping on the band wagon by taking further action i.e applying for a CO.

 

Should I include in my defence about psychological / psychiatric issues, or should I wait until the day to mention it?

 

Re Time Order, is it worth me applying for? If granted, do my payments come direct from my DMP (CCCS pay them) or is it attached to my salary, I don't want my employer knowing about my personal difficulties.

[Von Greenbach]

I have a court date re Northern Rock applying for a CO, wondering if anyone is facing court action or been taken to court by Northern Rock?

 

This is my thread in the legal section http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/166907-what-happens-next.html

[Von Greenbach]

When completing my defence, do I have to do it on official court papers, or can I do it plain paper?

[Von Greenbach]

Bumping for help with my questions.

[Von Greenbach]

I requested my CCA for this loan earlier in the week, is it worth me doing a S.A.R and if so, what would be the purpose of it, this loan is arounf 18 / 24 months old, so I have a feeling it may well be enforceable.

[Von Greenbach]

My questions have gone unanswered in this thread, maybe the title is not correct http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/166907-what-happens-next-3.html#post1843155

 

I've created a new title / thread, hoping someone can answer the following questions,

 

a) When do I ask if my other creditors have been informed of this hearing, do I ask within the defence I'm submitting? Also, will it do more harm than good asking the question? I don't want other creditors jumping on the band wagon by taking further action i.e applying for a CO.

 

b) Should I include in my defence about psychological / psychiatric issues, or should I wait until the day to mention it?

 

c) Re Time Order, is it worth me applying for? If granted, do my payments come direct from my DMP (CCCS pay them) or is it attached to my salary, I don't want my employer knowing about my personal difficulties.

 

d) When completing my defence, do I have to do it on official court papers, or can I do it plain paper?

 

e) I requested my CCA for this loan earlier in the week, is it worth me doing a S.A.R and if so, what would be the purpose of it, this loan is arounf 18 / 24 months old, so I have a feeling it may well be enforceable.

 

Sorry to ask so many questions, but this is really stressing me out.

[supasnooper]

Hi V G,

 

Sorry not to have answered this earlier.

 

"One further question, is it worth me asking CCCS for some support / defence, or am I better of handling this myself?"

 

Get CCCS to do an up to date review of your Income and Expenditure and request them to send you a copy, together with a copy of your latest CCCS payments statement to creditors.

Ask if they have any advice whilst your talking to them.

 

"When do I ask if my other creditors have been informed of this hearing, do I ask within the defence I'm submitting? Also, will it do more harm than good asking the question? I don't want other creditors jumping on the band wagon by taking further action i.e applying for a CO."

 

Yes ask it in the defence - the judge will want to know the answer to this as well.

 

"Should I include in my defence about psychological / psychiatric issues, or should I wait until the day to mention it?"

 

I would mention it at the end of the defence so the judge is aware that the appeal may take longer than the alloted 5 minutes.

 

"Re Time Order, is it worth me applying for? If granted, do my payments come direct from my DMP (CCCS pay them) or is it attached to my salary, I don't want my employer knowing about my personal difficulties."

 

A Time order may be worth asking for if you feel that the appeal is not going your way. If you do ask for and get granted a Time Order, your employer will NOT find out about it. The payments of a "Time Order" will be made by the judge and stipulate a date it must be paid, also the claimants bank details must be asked for.

 

I would NOT advise letting CCCS make the payment; because if their payment does not reach the claimant in time, the claimant will be within their rights to go back to the courts. It would be better to set up a standing order from your bank account for payment on a date 7 days earlier than stipulated by the court.

 

Your employer will only find out if an "Attachment of Earnings" is made by the court.

 

"When completing my defence, do I have to do it on official court papers, or can I do it plain paper?"

 

You can do it on plain paper -

 

Von Greenbach

1 Letsgo Road

Anytown

Anyshire

A1 2BC

 

XX November 2008

 

Claim No. 8XO******

 

Northern Rock v Von Greenbach

 

Appeal against Final Charging Order

 

Dear Sir \ Madam,

 

I wish to make the following points in defnce against the Final Charging Order.

 

List your points :-

 

1/

2/

etc.

 

Enclose copy of CCCS I&E and latest CCCS statement of payments to creditors

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

Von Greenbach

 

Sign your defence and get it to the court at least 7 days before your hearing.

Go in person if it's close by or send using Special Delivery.

I know this costs £4.60 but it MUST get there !!

 

Hope this helps.

Edited November 29, 2008 by supasnooper
added info

[Von Greenbach]

Thank you for your help, I'm very grateful to you.

[creditcardmug]

Hi i see your not getting answers, i cant help with this as i dont feel confident in this area, suggest you click the red triangle in your original thread to alert a mod, who im sure will get you some help.

 

Regards

[Von Greenbach]

Hi i see your not getting answers, i cant help with this as i dont feel confident in this area, suggest you click the red triangle in your original thread to alert a mod, who im sure will get you some help.

 

Regards

Hi CCM

 

Thanks for your reply, it was concerning me why I was not receiving any replies, would it be OK for me to use the red triangle, I just took it for granted the mods / some members with experience would have viewed the thread.

 

I don't want to waste peoples time.

[creditcardmug]

Its ok, they recommend it, im sure no-ones ignoring it, its probably the ones that see it dont have the answers, and the mods havnt seen it,

[MARTIN3030]

Make sure you add a statement of truth at the end before signing too.

[supasnooper]

Make sure you add a statement of truth at the end before signing too.

 

 

Well spotted..........Big Thanks.

[Von Greenbach]

Make sure you add a statement of truth at the end before signing too.

Martin, what do I actually say.

 

Do I actually sign my letter, or just print my name?

 

I've requested my CCA, not sure if I should be signing letters.

[supasnooper]

Hi VG,

 

Finish at the bottom of your letter :-

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

I, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, believe the above statement to be true and factual.

 

 

Signed .....................

 

Date XXth November 2008

Amend the date.

Please do sign the letter, as any correspondence to the court must be endorsed....................but NEVER to a DCA or Solicitor.

[supasnooper]

Thanks for your posts CCM............ I just hadn't got round to replying to VG on his original thread.

 

Best Regards,

 

Snoops

[Von Greenbach]

Thanks to everyone for there help, especially Supa, I'll leave it now whilst I concentrate on a defense, I'll post back at a later stage.

[FunkyFox]

Hi, I just wanted to add my 2p's worth. I hope it helps. I always try to be very realistic with the advice I offer so as not to set unrealistic expectiations. In many many ways my circumstances with my first case with Egg were very similar, right down to the involvement of CCCS and my illness, which is/was similar to yours.

 

To clarify you cannot defend an application for a final Charging Order. The CO is simply a form of enforcement on the CCJ. You can only make a representation to the court asking them not to grant it. You have mentioned some of the reasons earlier in the post. In my experience and from tales on here it is quite unusual for a DJ to not grant a final CO. If they do agree that it may predujice your other creditors then the judge may adjourn to allow the claimant to serve notice on all your other creditors that they are requesting a CO and they will be first in line. When they have done this it will come back to court and the CO made final (assuming no body objects - unlikely IMHO) therefore simply delaying the inevitable granting of the Charging Order.

 

Another consideration is that if you are succesful in getting the application for a final CO discharged there is nothing to stop the claimant then attempting to enforce the CCJ through other means, such as the baliffs or an attachment of earnings. In those circumstances you might consider a Charging Order to be the lesser of those other evils!

 

It is also worth mentioning that i think it is very shabby of NR to do all of this when you are on a DMP for 12+ months and all other creditors are happy. I would consider a complaint to NR and your MP, especially in light of the pressure being put upon other 'nationalised' banks. I am assuming you didn't miss any payments to NR/CCCS whilst on your plan than may have given them reason to do this?

 

Anyway back to the details of your situation. It sounds to me as if the CCCS initially entered an admission on your behalf to pay whatever you were paying on the DMP and the judgment was granted in favour of the claimant for this amount. They then decided this was not acceptable to them and applied for a redetermination hearing, clearly with a charging order in mind. You should have been notified of this and had the opportunity to attend to argue your point. It is worrying that you didn't.

 

Taking the above into consideration your other option is to apply to have judgment set aside and to hear the set aside application and the final CO hearing at the same time. There are a number of things to consider if you do this.

 

Firstly, you must have a defence as after a judgment is set aside you still have to have the case heard again, but this time with you defending yourself. If you don't have a winnable defence to enter then there is little point in making the application as all that will happen is a bucket load of costs (you will end in the Fast Track due to the size of the debt) and ultimately the same outcome. This is exactly what happened to me and I got judgment set aside after CCCS told me to admit the claim and offer £1 per week. They assured me it would be fine. It wasn't, but I was fortunate that their agreement was dodgy. I stated my health problems and the poor advice from CCCS as the reason for my application to set aside. So it is possible even when a claim has previously been admitted, albeit with mitigating circumstances.

 

You have made an application to NR for a copy of your CCA. Your loan is quite recent and there is every chance that they will have a copy of the agreement. Did you receive a default notice before they took action as that may be the basis for a defence?

 

You need to decide what is the best outcome for you and your health in these circumstances. That includes objecting to the Chargin Order in the first place. In the total absence of a defence and with a forthwith judgmeent for £20k against you, you need to be realistic about what is the best scenario in all of this for you. As I said above, even if you persuade the DJ not to grant the final CO then then NR can come after you with any other enforcement action.

 

One last thought, depending on what you decide taking all the advice and help in this thread into consideration, you could try asking the judge to make the charging order final but that no order for sale application or further enforcement action can be made whilst you stick to your DMP, on the grounds that you are vunderable due to your health. That way, unless you move you are no worse off and they are off your back.

 

I hope this helps and has not confused you. Your circumstances are so similar to mine I just had to jump in.

 

If you have any questions, please just ask. I will do all I can to assist.

 

All the best and good luck, FF:-)

[Von Greenbach]

Another consideration is that if you are succesful in getting the application for a final CO discharged there is nothing to stop the claimant then attempting to enforce the CCJ through other means, such as the baliffs or an attachment of earnings. In those circumstances you might consider a Charging Order to be the lesser of those other evils!

In the event of a CO NOT being granted, what are the chances of NR or any creditor going down that road?

It is also worth mentioning that i think it is very shabby of NR to do all of this when you are on a DMP for 12+ months and all other creditors are happy. I would consider a complaint to NR and your MP, especially in light of the pressure being put upon other 'nationalised' banks

That's a good idea, would it be best to complain to NR complaints dept or direct to Eversheds, would it be wise for me to mention my medical history, I'm not keen on every Tom Dick and Harry being aware, some details are very personal, but relevant to the action a CO could have on me.

I am assuming you didn't miss any payments to NR/CCCS whilst on your plan than may have given them reason to do this?

We missed one payment due to an unexpected bill, a token payment of £1.00 was made for the month in question, this was with the consent of CCCS.

Anyway back to the details of your situation. It sounds to me as if the CCCS initially entered an admission on your behalf to pay whatever you were paying on the DMP and the judgment was granted in favour of the claimant for this amount.

Yes they did, CCCS informed me at the time that NR would now be considered as a priority debt.

They then decided this was not acceptable to them and applied for a redetermination hearing, clearly with a charging order in mind. You should have been notified of this and had the opportunity to attend to argue your point. It is worrying that you didn't

Some papers came from a court, I forwarded them onto CCCS for completion, the next I heard [from a 3rd party debt agency offering assistance] a CCJ was granted, I don't recall being called to defend myself, I called the court and was told, it was just a formality for the creditor to either accept / reject the offer, the court never became involved at this stage, I don't recall being called to defend myself, only by requesting a hearing has the court now become involved [this is what the court have told me]

Taking the above into consideration your other option is to apply to have judgment set aside and to hear the set aside application and the final CO hearing at the same time.

[ The court have told me this is what will happen at my hearing]

Firstly, you must have a defence as after a judgment is set aside you still have to have the case heard again, but this time with you defending yourself. If you don't have a winnable defence to enter then there is little point in making the application as all that will happen is a bucket load of costs (you will end in the Fast Track due to the size of the debt) and ultimately the same outcome.

I'm having difficulty understanding the above, OK, applying for judgement set aside and listening to my defense at the same time, will I have to attend the court again?

I stated my health problems and the poor advice from CCCS as the reason for my application to set aside. So it is possible even when a claim has previously been admitted, albeit with mitigating circumstances.

This is what's concerning me, the poor advice from CCCS.

You have made an application to NR for a copy of your CCA. Your loan is quite recent and there is every chance that they will have a copy of the agreement

I totally agree, my loan is very recent i.e with a couple of years.

Did you receive a default notice before they took action as that may be the basis for a defence?

I don't recall being issued with one, but cannot swear to it.

You need to decide what is the best outcome for you and your health in these circumstances.

I need to fight this, I've had so many personal issues in my life, I cannot let this just ride over me.

As I said above, even if you persuade the DJ not to grant the final CO then then NR can come after you with any other enforcement action.

That terrifies me.

One last thought, depending on what you decide taking all the advice and help in this thread into consideration, you could try asking the judge to make the charging order final but that no order for sale application or further enforcement action can be made whilst you stick to your DMP, on the grounds that you are vunderable due to your health. That way, unless you move you are no worse off and they are off your back.

That's a good idea, would I ask that on the day, or within my defense?

I hope this helps and has not confused you. Your circumstances are so similar to mine I just had to jump in.

You've been a great help, the phrase "Charging Order" is just 2 words, unless one is experiencing it, no one realises the impact 2 words can have.

 

I thank you all for your time and words of support.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Von Greenbach

[FunkyFox]

In the event of a CO NOT being granted, what are the chances of NR or any creditor going down that road?

 

Look at it this way. Are they just going to walk away and leave the debt uncollected if they have a forthwith order for £20k. Unlikely, although theie options are limited.

 

That's a good idea, would it be best to complain to NR complaints dept or direct to Eversheds, would it be wise for me to mention my medical history, I'm not keen on every Tom Dick and Harry being aware, some details are very personal, but relevant to the action a CO could have on me.

 

I would complain to NR. Eversheds just do what they are told tbh. You don't have to do into detail at all just mention the severity of the illness and the effect this is having on you.

 

This is what's concerning me, the poor advice from CCCS.

 

In their defence they are inundated and when it comes to legal action can only really give out generic advice. They are certainly not geared up to defending claims etc. I believe that deperate people do tend to believe whatever the CCCS tell them and then find themselves in all sorts of trouble when it doesn't work out as anticipated.

That terrifies me.

 

Didn't mean to do that, you just need to be realistic about what might happen if the CO is not granted.

That's a good idea, would I ask that on the day, or within my defense?

 

I would prepare a document as you are stating the reasons that you don't believe that the granting of a final CO is correct and stating that if the court does not agree that they make an order preventing an order for sale or further enforcement action whilst you stick to the DMP that NR had been accepting (along with all your other creditors) for 12 months.

 

Any more questions just shout! FF

[Von Greenbach]

I’m going to base my appeal on the following, and would be grateful for some advice / guidence

 

A) The fact we’ve been on a manageable DMP for over 12 months, all other creditors have accepted.

 

B) To my knowledge no other creditors being informed of the action being taken by NR and granting a CO will show favouritism over the others.

 

C) Northern Rock being in breach of OFT guidelines, which clearly state

 

Deceptive and / Or Unfair Methods.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices as follows:

C: Refusing to deal with appointed or authorised appointed third parties, such as, Citizens Advice Bureau, Independent Advice Centre’s, or Money Advisor's.

D: Contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives.

 

[This relates to OFT above] Although I informed NR about my health issues, they have continued to by pass my appointed representative CCCS and contact me directly.

 

D) The effect a CO / sales order could have on my health.

Is there anything I should add / remove from the list?