VG - Vs Northen Rock - Charging Order

[Von Greenbach]

I obtained this:

 

Charging Order - an order of a court that a charge be placed on a property so that, when it is sold, the first part of the proceeds of the sale go to pay off an outstanding debt. A charging order effectively turns an unsecured loan into a secured loan. The existance of a charging order is noted on the deeds of the property in question. The Charging Orders Act 1979 allows creditors with a high court judgemnet or county court judgment the ability to secure the debt to assets. A charging order can't be made unless payments have been defaulted on a CCJ.

 

From this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/161658-z-debt-terminology.html

 

I'm confused with this part: A charging order can't be made unless payments have been defaulted on a CCJ.

 

I'm on a DMP with CCCS, I missed one payment with permission from CCCS due to an unexpected high bill, because of that Northern Rock wrote stating that I have defaulted on the agreement with CCCS and they have applied for a CO I suspect they'll go through the CCJ process first, I had court papers come and filled them in.

So, if a CCJ is granted, and I continue to pay via my DMP, will NR be able to obtain a CO saying I’ve defaulted on the ORIGINAL agreement i.e. my official monthly payments, before I got into financial difficulties?

Trust the above makes sense.

[debbbbsy]

Hi,

If they do obtain a CCJ against you, the judge will decide what your monthly payments will be. As long as you comply with this ruling, they CANNOT go for a charging order.

 

I think your focus needs to be to fight the CCJ.

When is the court date ?

Was this a loan or a credit card ? When was it taken out ?

Has the bank issued you with default notices ?

The more info you give, the more advice you'll get.

 

Debs

[Von Greenbach]

When is the court date ?

I've not had a court date, I completed the paperword and forwarded it to CCCS for completion.

Was this a loan or a credit card ? When was it taken out ?

It was a loan, taken out around end of 2006.

Has the bank issued you with default notices ?

Yes, I had one sometime ago.

The more info you give, the more advice you'll get

Many thanks

[Von Greenbach]

A couple of months ago I received some court papers behalf of one of my creditors, I sent the papers of to CCCS who completed them and offered what I've been paying for the last 12 months.

 

I heard nothing since then until today when I received further court papers saying "Judgement For The Claimant" I was not given an option to attend court and explain my reasons for a DMP, I have another 6 creditors who all seem OK with my DMP arrangement, apart from this one.

 

The creditor has refused the offer from CCCS even though I've been paying them the same amount for the last 12 months, I've phoned the court and they say the creditor is after a charging order, I've forwarded the papers of to CCCS to deal with, although I've no idea what the next step is.

 

Anyone with any advice as this is scaring me to death.

[intree]

Erm - to be honest the order can be set aside, but you have already admitted the debt by confirming that in sending the forms back on CCCS advice.

 

I know it sometimes difficult to get the right advice, but please do not do as CCCS or other DMP companies say, as this is a sure fire way to get a CCJ.

 

Now that you are in this position, please please listen to the advisors on this Forum as they may be able to assist you.

 

I hope that someone with more knowledge and legal insight will be along very soon.

[Von Greenbach]

Hi

I know it sometimes difficult to get the right advice, but please do not do as CCCS or other DMP companies say, as this is a sure fire way to get a CCJ

I done what I thought was right, I thought if the court had confirmation from CCCS re my I&E they would refuse the claimants application.

 

I doubt it's any good me requesting a CCCA as I only took the debt out in 2006, and I remember chaising them at the time as the loan had not entered my account, they said they were waiting for my credit agreement, which turned up the following day.

[Von Greenbach]

Bump for any experienced members advice

[rory32]

I heard nothing since then until today when I received further court papers saying "Judgement For The Claimant" I was not given an option to attend court and explain my reasons for a DMP, I have another 6 creditors who all seem OK with my DMP arrangement, apart from this one.

 

Did you/CCCS apply for a time order?

[Von Greenbach]

Did you/CCCS apply for a time order?

Hi rory

 

I don't know what that means, so I'll say no.

[rory32]

Time orders under section 129 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can be used for 'regulated agreement' debts. CCCS may not be aware that they could have applied for this.

 

What type of debt is this? When was it taken out?

 

Here's some info on time orders Debt Factsheets - Time Orders

[Von Greenbach]

It's a personal unsecured loan taken out in 2006, it's with Northern Rock.

 

When I spoke to the court today, they said NR want a CO as it will take to long to pay back under my DMP agreement.

[rory32]

Okay, I think it would be a good idea to give National Debtline a phone for some further support (Tel: 0808 808 4000).

 

Have NR applied for an interim charging order yet?

 

If you wish to defend the interim charging order being made final, objections must be made to the claimant no less than seven days before the hearing. The letter with your arguments must be sent recorded delivery to both creditor and court.

 

A time order is only a valid option if your agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act (which yours is).

 

You can ask the court to consider a time order on its own initiative before making a charging order final. The court will usually look into the position of the creditor as well as your situation when deciding whether a time order is ‘just’. This means the court will look at the reasons you took out the loan, consider how long and how much you have repaid to date, look at how you have attempted to resolve the issue to date and the creditor’s actions.

 

Does anyone else have a beneficial interest in your property?

[Von Greenbach]

Okay, I think it would be a good idea to give National Debtline a phone for some further support (Tel: 0808 808 4000)

OK, I'll do that later on today.

Have NR applied for an interim charging order yet??

I don't know, some months ago I had a court paper come through from the court which I sent off to CCCS, they completed it and sent it back to the court.

If you wish to defend the interim charging order being made final, objections must be made to the claimant no less than seven days before the hearing. The letter with your arguments must be sent recorded delivery to both creditor and court. ?

OK

A time order is only a valid option if your agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act (which yours is).?

Yes, as I owe over £20.000 and had my loan in 2006.

You can ask the court to consider a time order on its own initiative before making a charging order final. The court will usually look into the position of the creditor as well as your situation when deciding whether a time order is ‘just’. This means the court will look at the reasons you took out the loan, consider how long and how much you have repaid to date, look at how you have attempted to resolve the issue to date and the creditor’s actions. ?

OK

Does anyone else have a beneficial interest in your property?

Yes, my OH, we have a joint mortgage, strange thing is my OH also has a personal loan with NR, NR wrote to CCCS agreeing her DMP offer until 2009 very similiar amout to me (We have a joint DMP) hope that makes sense.

 

Why NR have targeted "Me" and not "Us" I don't understand.

[rory32]

I don't know, some months ago I had a court paper come through from the court which I sent off to CCCS, they completed it and sent it back to the court.

 

I think you need to get in touch with CCCS over this and find out exactly what is going on. You need to know exactly what they have done.

 

Here is some useful information on the process of charging orders and what they mean Debt Factsheets - Charging orders in the county court

[Von Greenbach]

Just an update, NR refused my monthly offer via my DMP through CCCS.

 

The case in now being transferred through to my local county court for a hearing, no date has yet been set, it was only last week the papers were being transferred.

 

I've been paying NR via my DMP for 12 months now, in view of an imminent court hearing, is it worth my applying for my CCA? (this personal loan is only around 18 months old, so I guess there is a valid CCA somewhere)

[rory32]

As you say in all likelyhood there will be a valid copy of the agreement somewhere but there's certainly no harm in asking for it.

[Von Greenbach]

Hello rory

 

I'm not sure if this is going to make sense, but I'll give it ago.

 

As NR have refused my offer of payment, they were granted a "Determination Order" I've appealed against that and now waiting for a hearing, however, I've found out today that when NR were granted the "Determination Order" a CCJ came with it

 

How can that be?

 

As yet, I've not had the opportunity to defend myself, I'm confused by it all, maybe I don't have the right to defend myself as I ow the money, which I've never denied as I've never missed a payment whilst on my DMP.

 

I spoke with CCCS and I'm informed because I've admitted the debt by offering a monthly payment, the CCJ is automatic.

 

The bottom line, NR are after a CO, I find it amazing that what was an unsecured loan can now be turned into a "Secured loan"

[42man]

I can't believe the CCCS have said that !! what about disputing it due to excesssive charges, non production of a valid CCA, etc etc !!

[rory32]

I spoke with CCCS and I'm informed because I've admitted the debt by offering a monthly payment, the CCJ is automatic.

 

I'm afraid so, yes.

 

Have you applied for a time order?

[rory32]

Just a thought, did you admit the debt in the claim papers e.g. making an offer of payments? Or did you state that you would defend?

[Von Greenbach]

I can't believe the CCCS have said that !!

42man, they did say that honestly.

what about disputing it due to excesssive charges

I don't know if I've had any excessive charges.

non production of a valid CCA, etc etc !!

I've not requested a CCA, as this debt is only around 18 months old.

 

(Thanks for your help)

[Von Greenbach]

I'm afraid so, yes

OK, I suffer with a psychotic disability, had I been warned about receiving a CCJ I could have prepared myself psychologically.

Have you applied for a time order?

 

No rory, I looked at your previous link within this thread re time orders, I don't digest / retain information very well, although I did speak to CCCS about a time order, and was informed it's something there not experienced with.

 

I may get critized here, but I am unable to deal with this due to my psychological disability, I relay on CCCS to guide me, and deal with my credotors that being said I don’t want to rock the boat with CCCS as I’m frightened in case they throw me off my DMP.

 

I’m unable to handle stress / anxiety very well, I have informed NR of this, yet they’ve proceeded down this road causing me countless sleepless nights.

 

One other issue that bothers me of my 9 creditors, only NR are taking legal action I’m scared in case the others decide to follow NR.

 

Although I’ve given brief details about my medical issues, I must make it clear I’m not after sympathy or attention.

 

I’ve never been so scared as what I am at the moment in case I lose my home, I’ve never missed a mortgage payment / utility bill / council tax, and yet NR can have this detrimental effect on me for what is after all an unsecured debt.

 

I’m grateful to you all for the advice you’ve given me.

[Von Greenbach]

did you admit the debt in the claim papers e.g. making an offer of payments?

CCCS completed the paperwork, I've never recieved a copy of what was said, but CCCS did make an offer (The same amount they've been paying for the last 12 months)

Or did you state that you would defend?

Since NR refused the offer and were granted a "Determination Order" I've now appealed against the Determination Order and I'm waiting for a hearing.

[rory32]

I’ve never been so scared as what I am at the moment in case I lose my home,

Try not to worry about this (I know that's impossible to do at the moment but do try). Sale orders after a charging order are very rare and judges will only grant them in exceptional circumstances. Judges really don't like granting them and if you are making an offer to pay the charge then that strengthens your case.

[rory32]

Can I ask, do you have children and if so how old are they?