ihpj vs. Citi Cards - court paper received -claim struck out!! now what???

[Enron]

Wait before you send it, i've got the OFT clarification which outlines what they've got to send you.... which will be handy if you include with your request.

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

 

i.e. copy of the executed agreement, terms & conditons of the time, and current terms & conditions.

 

It might be in your interest to include copies of the 3 pages i've linked to.

 

Currently Citi are stating that the Terms & Conditions which they send with the issue of cards are sufficient to fulfill a CCA request, but thats not true.

 

They can omit the name, address, signature and signature box - but they certainly cannot substitute one document for an entirely different one.

 

It is possible that they could produce the executed agreement, but this will have to be or resemble the form which you filled in.

 

Keep me posted as to how you get on.

[Enron]

Citi were interesting in the approach they took to penalty charges, in that they decided to defend each and every penalty charge claim unless it was cost prohibative i.e. the cost of defending would be more than the claim.

 

General concensus is that Citibank US took exception to its charging regime being challenged even if it was unlawful, and orderred each litigation to be vigerously defended. Hence Citi Financial Europe taking a different stance to all other banks with regard to these matters.

 

The only downside was their solicitors inability to plan convincing documents, conflicting cost exhibits which came to light when claimants compared documentation, figures which showed a sustained loss over all penalty charge levels, hardly believeable.

 

Likewise with the issue of CCA, Citi are bending the rules, attempting to hide behind regulations and outright mislead their customers. After doing hundreds borderring on thousands of hours of research, later Terms & Conditions to those at the time of the agreement do not fulfil a s78(1) request, unless the executed agreement has been lost and is prior to 1985.

 

There is always the possability that a copy of the executed agreement is found and presented, at which point the agreement becomes enforceable if it contains all the perscribed terms.... but until then after the CCA request goes into default a creditor is breaking the law if they add interest, penalty charges or ammend a customers credit file in anyway.

[Enron]

In my instance they did roll back the interest and penalty charges for the period that they had not complied with the request - that was until they produced the 2007 Terms & Conditions.

 

Subsquently they produced a justification as to why the 2007 Terms & Conditions were the executed agreement from 1996 - which would be laughable had this matter not been serious.

 

Effectively some companies believe they are above the law, this is not the case though, I think it might be time for a letter to trading standards to get this ball rolling.

[Enron]

The court paperwork is in.... but waiting to hear back.... may have to ammend the claim considerring that I now have proof of the defaults.

[Enron]

It is possible that Citi could come through and provide a copy of the executed agreement.

 

This would have been from a period when Associates operated the credit card accounts, Associates First Capital were taken over by Citigroup before they took on the Peoples Bank credit card business from memory.

 

But guess we'll wait and see, and scrutinise whatever you receive fully.

[Enron]

For them to proceed with action against you they will have to produce the original agreement under CPR rules.

[Enron]

If and when the phone calls start, and are numerous i.e. harassment then say that you'll take them to court under the Protection from Harassment Act, at the same time contact trading standards who likewise have powers to stop these calls.

 

Likelihood is that they'll ignore you, losing your rag a bit at them when mentioning court worked in my case.

 

Also be aware that it is not beyond their phone operaters to lie - had them say that the FOS were nolonger involved in my complaint, which is a complete lie. All tactics to try and make you lose hope and give them some money.

 

It is possible that they could come up with a copy of the executed agreement, but after defaulting on the request they have no right to charge interest/penalty charges etc. until they do get it to you.

[Enron]

Exactly, put your feet up until they properly comply.

[Enron]

Under no circumstance give them your new details.

 

I remember complaining about their contact by phone, after assuring me that they would nolonger contact me by telephone (which was a lie) the guy asked me whether I wanted to give them my mobile number or e-mail..... to which my response was you must be joking.

[Enron]

Any problems in their complying contact your local trading standards, give them a further 2 weeks or so.

 

Will save them trying to fob you off with a response that T&C serve to fulfil a s78(1) CCA request.... though if you do get that letter i'd love a copy.

[Enron]

Citi Financial Europe Plc's credit license comes up for renewal on 4th September 2009.

 

So complain away, Citi's actions over CCA request have been underhand to say the least and could impact on the renewal.

[Enron]

I think potentially we've got to look at obtaining an injunction against them, the law is clear and they haven't been fulfilling s78(1) requests of customers who have submitted them.

 

The fact that they mislead my local trading standards department that they had sent a document not previously received indicates that theres something fishy in the air.

 

The fact that Citi also are monitoring this thread (which we have confirmed) should indicate they are interested in our approach to this.

 

--

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

 

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either (ie in addition to the copy executed agreement)

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating

to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or

(b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Enron

[Enron]

At the end of the day all we are asking for is to be treated fairly and honestly as customers, if thats too much for a bank then you have to question the ethical and legal reasons why such an institution should retain its credit licence.

[Enron]

I am sure that there are some banks who operate ethically, that said you could likely count them on one hand.

 

There was a time when banks were there to serve the customers and make a reasonable profit, the customer was happy, the bank was happy, however now it appears a case that profit is the be all and end all regardless of legality of certain practices.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Enron

[Enron]

Right, i'm gonna suggest you contact your MP and request that he contact the head of the Office Of Fair Trading a Mr.John Fingleton.

 

There are lots of people being affected by Citi's incorrect response to s78(1) CCA requests, and this needs to be investigated - the more correspondence Mr Fingleton receives relating to this matter the better.

 

At the end we as customers only want documents that we are legally entitled to, Citi however do not recongnise this. If it does get investigated Citi are certainly in a hard place, as their actions with relation to these requests violate their own internal code of conduct, as well as the consumer credit act, consumer credit regulations, OFT guidelines, banking code and a number of other things.

[Enron]

Lol..... worth a try though, its a document that you are legally entitled to a copy of, and the creditor is under a duty to provide it to you otherwise they are barred from operating the account.

 

Politely request that she contact the head of the Office Of Fair Trading to ask that they investigate this matter.

[Enron]

Typical Citi response, and i'm sure one that the OFT would find interesting, especially in light that you have made the CCA request.

 

Gonna PM you in a moment.

 

I would write to Citi, enclosing a copy of your original CCA request - stating that you have contacted the Office Of Fair Trading.

[Enron]

Attempt at trying to confuse the account holder if you ask me, i've seen these tactics previously from Citi.

 

Though having just had a word with "ihpj" I think its something that they could live to regret.

[Enron]

Sounds good, I would advise enterring the details I said about regarding your employment.

[Enron]

Theres definately something up with their agreements, whilst it is possible they could produce a perfectly compliant one - the very fact that they are being evasive in not producing copies says something.

 

If it is anything like the one I received via trading standards 9 months after my orignial request they appear to have only one side of the older agreements (1990s agreement) - and that one side has issues that would make the enforcability of it very difficult if taken to court because of headings and so forth even if they had both sides.

 

Would be wiser to just provide agreements than try and mislead customers with varied Terms & Conditions - but then again if you want to unlawfully pull the wool over your customers eyes contrary to the law, credit act regulations and your own internal code of conduct in the hope of maintaining payments then I suppose thats the way to go. Its all a case of greed!

Edited February 27, 2009 by Enron

[Enron]

Time to contact your MP, and get him to get in touch with the head of the Office Of Fair Trading.

 

Also submit a complaint, enclosing a copy of this yourself to the OFT.

[Enron]

Dont think its too complex an issue, you are legally entitled to request a copy of the agreement you original signed i.e. executed agreement, if a creditor does not honour or properly complete this request they are not entitled to enforce the agreement against you until they do.

 

You are not attempting to escape any duties conveyed on you, just to see the document to have a copy for your records and ascertain whether it is legally compliant and properly drawn up.

[Enron]

Standard procedure for them, and definately good reason to make a complaint to the OFT and get your MPs involvement if you havent already.

[Enron]

They just don't care about following correct procedure, i'm having an interesting time with 1st Credit at mo.

 

My belief is that Citi will not supply 1st Credit with the executed agreement and associated documents - so could be going to court over this.

[Enron]

Same here, I am going to start pushing 1st Credit soon for a resolution, or its off to court we go.