ihpj vs. Citi Cards - court paper received -claim struck out!! now what???

[ihpj]

Dear All,

 

Have decided to enter the fray against Citi Cards - I already have similar actions against NatWest and HFC (Marbles) ongoing - will be interested to note their response to my request that I intend to post out first thing 08/12. And having read through the thread, am posting out my letter to the E14 address in London.

 

Would like to clarify that this is purely a CCA related request and not a quest for refunding of charges and penalties. This account has been run for many years without incident (opened 2001 I think?) and is not in collections or default.

 

I Look forward to receiving your advice and support as I embark on my journey...

Edited December 7, 2008 by ihpj

[Enron]

Wait before you send it, i've got the OFT clarification which outlines what they've got to send you.... which will be handy if you include with your request.

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/1-8.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c104/telso/Image3.jpg

 

i.e. copy of the executed agreement, terms & conditons of the time, and current terms & conditions.

 

It might be in your interest to include copies of the 3 pages i've linked to.

 

Currently Citi are stating that the Terms & Conditions which they send with the issue of cards are sufficient to fulfill a CCA request, but thats not true.

 

They can omit the name, address, signature and signature box - but they certainly cannot substitute one document for an entirely different one.

 

It is possible that they could produce the executed agreement, but this will have to be or resemble the form which you filled in.

 

Keep me posted as to how you get on.

[ihpj]

Hi Enron, it was through reading your own thread (and other similar, but primarily yours) that prompted me to enter the fray against Citi. Their beligerent stance is interesting, however I do like a fight

 

So Citi seem fair game IMHO. I do hope Citi reply and advise they are exempt as this requirement to comply and it will enable me to throw the account into dispute sooner rather than later. However I will need to proceed very carefully (and with help) from folks here to ensure that when we strike agaisnt Citi we strike hard and strike decissively.

 

With collective complaints recorded agaisnt them with the relevant authorities (I know they are a bit like wet-towels) at some point something will need to be done about firms like Citi.

 

They said Bank Charges couldn't be recovered etc. but look at what collecgtive action has brought us all. This will no doubt be the same with miscreants like Citi - although with them in such a weak financial position, now is the time tro strike.

 

I am a mean SOB aren't I

 

Enron, have subscribed to your thread, will watch that regularly and appreciate your input on my own when you have the time.

[ihpj]

I hate weekends - they just seem to get 'in the way'

 

I have already drafted my repost to them (with the help of the other threads and contributors) in anticipation of them feeling they are exempt from the regulatory and legal framework of our Country.

 

Monday morning the CCA goes off. The same day I get their non-compliatory response, they will get my repost by return. I have a low tolerance for stupid, and they will no doubt learn that soon enough.

Edited December 8, 2008 by ihpj

[Enron]

Citi were interesting in the approach they took to penalty charges, in that they decided to defend each and every penalty charge claim unless it was cost prohibative i.e. the cost of defending would be more than the claim.

 

General concensus is that Citibank US took exception to its charging regime being challenged even if it was unlawful, and orderred each litigation to be vigerously defended. Hence Citi Financial Europe taking a different stance to all other banks with regard to these matters.

 

The only downside was their solicitors inability to plan convincing documents, conflicting cost exhibits which came to light when claimants compared documentation, figures which showed a sustained loss over all penalty charge levels, hardly believeable.

 

Likewise with the issue of CCA, Citi are bending the rules, attempting to hide behind regulations and outright mislead their customers. After doing hundreds borderring on thousands of hours of research, later Terms & Conditions to those at the time of the agreement do not fulfil a s78(1) request, unless the executed agreement has been lost and is prior to 1985.

 

There is always the possability that a copy of the executed agreement is found and presented, at which point the agreement becomes enforceable if it contains all the perscribed terms.... but until then after the CCA request goes into default a creditor is breaking the law if they add interest, penalty charges or ammend a customers credit file in anyway.

[ihpj]

Enron, many thanks for your input - VERY interesting...

 

Being a US firm they will always be guided what Corprate in the US say - no matter what the locals might say/believe/advise. So if US Corporate say defend, then that is what they will do. Anyhow, the issue here and the 'reasonable excuse' if challenged by a Judge is to say that:

 

Sir, it has never been my intention to question the debt itself nor evade repaying it. However as a Customer of a well respected financial institution, being afforded protections under the laws of this land, I have chosen to exercise my legal privilege and rights in asking them to prodcue a document that the CCA says I am fully entitled to ask for.

 

As a responsible customer I have always met my financial obligations and now seek the same from an institution that purports itself to be equally respectable, honest and fair; but above all is regulated and authorised to trade in the UK. I have done nothering more other than to seek information I am entitled to.

 

So if they ever do produce the required document at Court, that will be fine, as I am not seeking to evade liability. However any charges etc. applied in the absence will have to be rolled back. I am not doing anything devious or uderhanded - just doing what the law says I am entitled to. AFAIC they can play all the games they like/want - but until they fall back into line with compliance - they will not get a penny from me. It will be like a payment holiday

[ihpj]

FWIW, in my case my 'agreement' should be dating back to/around 2001/02 - I would be very surprised if it was much earlier than 2001 but I am sure no later. I understand that the CCA was amended in 2006, and I know for a fact that the CCA's I have raised are all for credit cards that were started around 1999 - 2003.

 

...not that I know much about the amended version other than it strengthens the Courts' ability to enforce previously unenforceable agreements (or something).

Edited December 9, 2008 by ihpj

[Enron]

In my instance they did roll back the interest and penalty charges for the period that they had not complied with the request - that was until they produced the 2007 Terms & Conditions.

 

Subsquently they produced a justification as to why the 2007 Terms & Conditions were the executed agreement from 1996 - which would be laughable had this matter not been serious.

 

Effectively some companies believe they are above the law, this is not the case though, I think it might be time for a letter to trading standards to get this ball rolling.

[ihpj]

In my instance they did roll back the interest and penalty charges for the period that they had not complied with the request - that was until they produced the 2007 Terms & Conditions.

 

Subsquently they produced a justification as to why the 2007 Terms & Conditions were the executed agreement from 1996 - which would be laughable had this matter not been serious.

 

So, did this get to Court and discussed? Or (as I believe reading your thread) you are still exchanging correspondence with them in preparation of going to Court. They can huff and puff all they want, but ultimately they cannot act outside of the law - and at Court they will be found wanting.

 

Certainly will be interesting!

[Enron]

The court paperwork is in.... but waiting to hear back.... may have to ammend the claim considerring that I now have proof of the defaults.

[ihpj]

Right-O CCA request sent, 1st Class Recorded, this morning.

 

Now await their response and see how things go ... @Whee!

[Enron]

It is possible that Citi could come through and provide a copy of the executed agreement.

 

This would have been from a period when Associates operated the credit card accounts, Associates First Capital were taken over by Citigroup before they took on the Peoples Bank credit card business from memory.

 

But guess we'll wait and see, and scrutinise whatever you receive fully.

[ihpj]

I think I have always been with Citi Bak for my credit card. So no issue of them not being able to produce the required document. Their conduct doesn't really concern me because in order for them to get me to comply, they will need to go to Court - where the difficult questions will be asked of them - so I am not concerned.

 

The regulatory bodies in this country are weak at best, with no operating budgets and a severe hampering of them by the Govt. - so I do not hold out any hope that they will take any real action. However, just because a statuatory body exists it doens't mean that we sideline them...if enough complaints are received and enough people take action, then over time, something will get done. This is part of the reason why I am getting stuck in too.

 

Will obviously look for help/guidance from folk here tho' - whatever [little] I know I know from the work you guys have done here

[Enron]

For them to proceed with action against you they will have to produce the original agreement under CPR rules.

[ihpj]

Still a few more days to go before I hear back from them; will post back whatever drivvle they do send back

[Enron]

If and when the phone calls start, and are numerous i.e. harassment then say that you'll take them to court under the Protection from Harassment Act, at the same time contact trading standards who likewise have powers to stop these calls.

 

Likelihood is that they'll ignore you, losing your rag a bit at them when mentioning court worked in my case.

 

Also be aware that it is not beyond their phone operaters to lie - had them say that the FOS were nolonger involved in my complaint, which is a complete lie. All tactics to try and make you lose hope and give them some money.

 

It is possible that they could come up with a copy of the executed agreement, but after defaulting on the request they have no right to charge interest/penalty charges etc. until they do get it to you.

[ihpj]

Oh I quite agree. If they do produce a proper document then I'd be more than happy to continue to meet my obligations - however until then

 

I will treat it like an impromtu payment holiday - and I could do with that right now!

[Enron]

Exactly, put your feet up until they properly comply.

[ihpj]

Just realised, the [home] phone number they hold on file is now 'out of service' due to my having to ask BT to install a brand new line a few months back - the only phone number (if at all) they have for me is my mobile - so I doubt very much I will be haranged by phone.

 

Have to wait and see though...

[Enron]

Under no circumstance give them your new details.

 

I remember complaining about their contact by phone, after assuring me that they would nolonger contact me by telephone (which was a lie) the guy asked me whether I wanted to give them my mobile number or e-mail..... to which my response was you must be joking.

[ihpj]

Under no circumstance give them your new details.

 

Oh crickey you're spot on Enron.

 

They wont be getting any new/updated phone details from me (other than those they already hold) - but I know for a fact that the landline they have is now totally unobtainable (due to the the line and number change) - not sure if I ever gave them my mobile - but that is easily handled as I can divert (and store) any messages straight to voicemail

[ihpj]

Still nothing from Citi. Have checked Royal Mail website and note my request was CONFIRMED delivered on 09/12 (have printed off copies of confirmation!). 12 working days elapse on XAMS day (typical!) so must give them an extra couple of extra days.

 

I guess if I hear nothing by 05/01/09 - then I can't be criticsed for holding them in default....anyhoo, will update when I hear back!

Edited December 17, 2008 by ihpj

[MARTIN3030]

If the last day is 25th.December,then the next working day would be the 29th December (Monday)

So no need to give them a further week.

[ihpj]

I take your point Martin3030, however I was thinking a little further down the line where if I do end up before a District Judge, then he may perceive my eagerness to hold them in default prejudicailly...hence why I was thinking of giving them a few days extra. Always seems to look good in Court if you have been the more reasonable and accomodating party.

 

But I am here for advice and support from the people 'in the know' and will always take it on board. I do wonder if Santa will bring me my CCA or an abrupt refusal

[MARTIN3030]

Make no mistake,Citi will take advantage of any extra time,in fact they are famous for not filing AT ALL !!

Mine has to be in for Xmas Eve I have a big bundle for Court.I will send Cities copies for delivery at the last moment-so they cannot benefit from my subs.

I am expecting all their usual excuses-they will blame the Christmas Post etc-but I am already alerting the Court to this old chestnut.

If I can get mine to them on time-then they arent excused from the same.