Lowell/HFO claimform - old barclaycard debt **WON***

[DonkeyB]

Pank, your details are still legible in these. Best take the PDFs off and delete all the personal bits properly.

[fedup21]

HFO terms and condition number 11, contact details, "you must keep us informed of address and telephone numbers at home and at work, failure to do so will be a breach"

Address i can understand, but what right do they have to DEMAND that you have to give telephone numbers? Makes a complete mockery of the OFT guidance, or am I just being picky?

[DonkeyB]

Their T&Cs, as mentioned earlier in the thread, are pure tosh. They CANNOT impose their T&Cs on Pank or anyone - it's the original T&Cs that apply, IF they have a valid CCA. And, as fedup says, a breach of what, indeed? There is NO agreement of any kind with HFO. If they claim the OC issued a default notice, and terminated the account, then a further default notice is just wrong. That default notice is also terminally flawed. However, I have concerns about the content of the fax sent to them.

 

The other documents, as you point out, all have inconsistent dates and layouts because HFO/TR simply make them up again to suit their case, and they make very elementary mistakes. However, judges tend not to care, sadly.

 

While you can chip away at their integrity by highlighting the discrepancies in their documents (but don't accuse them of forgery), the crux is to discredit the DNs and NoAs, and to show that the T&Cs supplied with the application form are defective and prejudicial against you in some way.

 

We need a bit more heavyweight help on this one, particularly in regard to their statements on CPR. This is a new approach from them - they actually appear to be considering the implications of the law!

[count orlok]

did you agree to be bound by their terms and conditions? as for keeping them informed of your work number, I can't see any ligit reason for compelling you to give them someone elses phone number.

[Rhia]

Yes I too think the fax you sent could be held against you. However if you read it again you say you do not acknowledge the debt and then you ask for a copy of the settlement figure and say (if I paid it off in one sum) and a paying in book. I think you also said underneath that you could not pay them XX as they were demanding.

It is obvious you are confused by what is going on here and I think I would place great emphasis on this. They have also supplied statements for addresses you have never lived at. No wonder you were confused. I think it's perfectly acceptable (knowing how agressive these are) to state openly you were utterly confused by their claims. You did not know what this debt was about but faced witha s olicitor's letter did not know exactly what to do. Now you have taken advice you realise their claims were malicious and unfounded and put them to prove without a shadow of a doubt that they have the correct paperwork to support their claims.

[DonkeyB]

Great advice Rhia.

[broken arrow]

If Pank never received a default notice,would this mean HFO have no right to the debt.

And would Barclaycard not be breaking data protection laws by giving this info to HFO.

[Pank]

I have not agreed to anything. Or signed anything. I have never agreen to their T&C's

[Number6]

I've got the docs bundle now.

 

Unless the copy that you hold is vastly better than the upload then the barclaycard application form does not meet with the legibility criterion of the Copies of Documents legislation.

 

My first act would be to write to / fax Turnbulls immediately and ask for a clearly legible copy that conforms to the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 Section 2(1). The regulation states that a copy must be "be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the " The copy you posted is not easily legible. The document will be heavily relied on by Turnbulls and if it's illegible then you can argue strongly that the case should be dismissed on that basis alone.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Number6

[Pank]

I am posting the bundle again.

 

I was very scared when I wrote the fax, the letter I received stated that they had identified me as a home owner and they where going to get a charging order on my house. I panicked. Then I found this site and I was told to ask for CCA etc which I duly did.

Thank you everyone for your efforts. I just want to know if I should carry on or give in, feel pretty deflated. I never had a response to this fax so I sort of assumed they had not received it.

Bundle from Thurnbull.pdf

[fedup21]

Hi Pank,

Don't give up, you are stronger and better than them. I know how hard it is, things got better after I found this site, and now, well, I can take on the world! You will get the best advice here, just be patient and stay strong, these people rely on grinding you down by using underhand and intimidating tactics, thats how they get their way. So hang on in there.

[Number6]

I am posting the bundle again.

 

I was very scared when I wrote the fax, the letter I received stated that they had identified me as a home owner and they where going to get a charging order on my house. I panicked. Then I found this site and I was told to ask for CCA etc which I duly did.

Thank you everyone for your efforts. I just want to know if I should carry on or give in, feel pretty deflated. I never had a response to this fax so I sort of assumed they had not received it.

 

Do not give up!!!!

 

Turnbulls and their kind rely on people giving up. You have every chance of beating them. Just stay calm, get advice every step of the way from here, follow that advice to the letter and you won't go wrong.

 

I've been where you are several times now and I know how black it can look. Trust me, it's never as bad as you think.

 

DO NOT GIVE UP! You have friends here, believe me!

[Pank]

Right, faxed the letter a letter as No 6 suggested.

Can someone tell me what should happen now? What do I do if they do not send me anything or ignor my fax/letter?

[DonkeyB]

I echo that wholeheartedly. But we could do with a bit of heavyweight expertise on how to counter this.

[Pank]

Thank you for your kind messages... feel better now I have sent them that fax.

[Number6]

Thank you for your kind messages... feel better now I have sent them that fax.

 

If they're anything like they were with me then they'll say the copy is the best they have. If they do say that then that's line of attack number one at court.

 

If you do get a better copy post it up and let's have a look at it.

[Pank]

Right, cheers. What should I do now? Just wait until they get back to me or make a start on the defence. Am I waiting to see if I can have a better copy, so that I can add it in to the deffence that one was not forth coming?

[Number6]

Right, cheers. What should I do now? Just wait until they get back to me or make a start on the defence. Am I waiting to see if I can have a better copy, so that I can add it in to the deffence that one was not forth coming?

 

We need to make a start on the defence using what you have now.

 

I have to go for a while but I'll have another look later this evening by which time others may have commented as well.

 

Just relax for a while - nothing's substantial is going to happen right away. Go and have a relaxing drink or something

Edited March 23, 2009 by Number6
typo

[Rhia]

I agree strongly with Number6 the illegibility of the application form alone renders it unenforceable. I will have another look this evening and pass any comments I think will be helpful.

 

I think I need to re-read the whole thread again.

 

Panks we are going to kick these schmuks monstrous corporate ass between us. Do not worry you are doing a great job.

[rich2568]

Your reference to attachment of the written agreement to the claim fonn, under CPR PD16 para.7.3, must be read in conjunction with the Practice Direction applicable to claims issued through Northampton County Court Bulk Centre, especially par. 1.4(4).(see highlighted at exhibit 6)

We await the filing and serving of your defence.

 

e) A copy of a letter sent by you, dated 051h May 2008, requesting to pay the outstanding sum, therefore, acknowledging the debt outstanding to our client.(Exhibit 5)

 

so what does the above mean in lamens term?

[Pank]

Yes, what does that mean? Why is is different going through the bulk centre?

I feel more confident this morning, it is amazing what a good nights sleep can do!

Thank you guys for helping with the defence.

[DonkeyB]

If they issue the claim through the bulk centre, they don't have to attach any of the documents they refer to in their claim as it's usually done on line. Not sure if that's what it refers to.

[Rhia]

The Bulk Centre - it's like the McDonalds of the County Court system. It shovels 'em in and shovels 'em out. It can be rough justice for some and DCAs use it as they can get more CCJs this way. However if you defend it will move to your local court and you have moe of a fighting chance.

[Pank]

Hi Rhia,

Will it be moved automatically to a local court as soon as I file a deffence?

 

Cheers

[DonkeyB]

Once you file your AQ, yeah, it should be done automatically.