Marston Notice of Seizure Urgent Advice needed

[Bigfishnet]

Last Friday evening a bailiff from Marston turned up and handed me a Notice of Seizure showing my car parked on the drive and the sum of £544.71 (on a first visit!!!) with NO breakdown of costs just the Total Amount Due Today filled out.

 

He offered to reduce this amount by approximately £100 if I settled there and then.I refused, he left saying he'll be back on Monday.

 

I told him that I was still in dispute with Hackney about this and was waiting a response to my challenge/appeal which I had not received.This does go back to March this year and is a bit of a long story.

 

On Monday he returned with another person who never introduced himself.

 

I asked him to leave a number of times but he stuck his foot in the door and refused to move it. After about 10 mins of me standing in front of the open door I phoned the police

 

Now I am quite a big guy at 6'5" but have never used violence unless defending myself so physically I did not do anything ,rather hoping that the Police would ask him to leave......surprise surprise they didn't they were only there to make sure a breach of the peace did not take place.

 

I specifically told the Officers concerned that I did not want him in the house and had have asked him numerous times to leave. They said he was going about this lawful business.

 

I said to them he was attempting an illegal entry.They said he had a Warrant

 

I said it did not allow him to enter my house. They did nothing.This went on for around 30 mins me inside with one Officer and him outside with another

 

Now all this time my wife was in our living room keeping our rather large dog quiet until she could stand it any more and came out in tears, I was still fuming.

 

Eventually, and I'm not quite sure how it happened as I was in another room with one Officer. The door was left open by the Police and the Bailiff stepped "announcing I am entering the premises".

 

With my wife in floods tears and the dog barking me in another room I was powerless to stop him coming in.

 

He started completing an Inventory.He eventually finished and left me with a Goods Inventory to sign and the bill which now had gone up to £631.57 again with absolutely NO breakdown of costs.This I did sign on the front.Written by in hand b the Bailiff is Friday 14.00 for payment.

 

He would not leave me with a copy of the Warrant (does this have to be stamped by the Court because his wasn't). Apparently he told the Police it doesn't have to be all he needs is knowledge of a Warrant.(is this true or is it a bluff?)

 

I have NOT signed the Official Walking Possession Agreement on the back of the Notice of Seizure and neither has he, only the Goods Inventory.

 

There are a few items on the Inventory that are not mine and can be provedas such, they are from my wife's grandmothers inheritance (a cabinet and plates etc...not of any huge value mostly sentimental)

 

He has noted down my PC which as I work as a self employed IT Consultant I told him was a tool of my trade, all he said was that he is allowing me the chance to download everything to CD. This I find quite amusing as there is about a Terabyte of data stored which would take about a month to burn to a room full of CD's (I am exaggerating a bit here)

 

So where do I go from here?

 

I have completed the Statutory Declaration Out of Time for TEC and this will get sent to them today.Will this stop the action proposed on Friday even for a short time?

 

Do I have an recourse for the actions the Bailiff took when entering, in my opinion illegally and non peacefully?

 

Do I have any recourse that the Police unwittingly aided and abetted him in his actions?

 

If his actions are indeed illegal does this mean that the whole process is now null and void?

 

Help PLEASE I have a bit of time but not a lot

[Guest BURP]

The bailiff levied on your car without giving you reasonable opportunity to pay. This commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 because he has unlawfully increased his fees by making a false representation. The bailiff charged fees for levying on goods without contacting the debtor beforehand. The bailiff also said he would increase his fees if you failed to pay an existing fee according to a deadline. This commits an offence of extortion. Your post says you signed a document, if its not a walking possessions agreement then no fee applies. Bailiffs are not normally interested in furniture, they fetch nothing at auction and its leverage to get you to pay. If the police were present with the bailiff then you can make a complaint against the officers for Assisting an Offender under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act. Ignorance of the law (of bailiff fee regulations) is no defence, but you will have an uphill fight to crack the freemasonry bond between police officers and their commanders. You may have to escalate your police complaint to the IPCC. Lets get some balls rolling...

 

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Fee irregularities. Opportunity to compensate

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to be irregularities with your fees and the conduct of yoiur bailiff. Your bailiff levied on a car without giving me reasonable opportunity to pay. This commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 because he has unlawfully increased his fees by making a false representation. The bailiff charged fees for levying on goods without contacting me beforehand. The bailiff also said he would increase his fees if I failed to pay an his existing fees according to a deadline and this commits an offence of extortion.

 

I ask you to provide the following within fourteen (14) days:

 

1) The name of the certificating court and certificate number for the bailiff in charge

 

2) Written confirmation of a) your fees, and b) the original debt

 

3) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with regulations prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid parking tickets

 

4) The name and address of the person or body you act for

 

If you cannot complete the above, please unconditionally pay me within fourteen (14) days a refund of all unlawful fees and unconditionally pay me compensation of £4999.00 for failure to comply with the law prescribing your fees and I will consider this aspect of the matter closed.

 

If I later find an irregularity with your fees within the statutory time limit of 6 years as prescribed under Section 2 of the Limitation Act 1980, I will enter no further correspondence with you and automatically file a Form 4 at court for dishonestly defrauding me with your fees. This may also involve a criminal investigation by police and your bailiff and firm's director(s) may receive a criminal record for assisting an offender, benefiting from proceeds of crime and committing offences under the Fraud Act 2006.

 

I confirm that I have lodged an appeal with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton and I understand this halts enforcement and your fees now stand revoked.

 

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

 

If a bailiff turns up again, make your car safe and keep this letter handy and hand it through a window or your letterbox. Never open the door to a bailiff and speak as little as possible and have a camcorder ready to video everything.

 

[DATE]

 

BY HAND

 

Dear Bailiffs.

 

Re: Your Reference

 

[NAME OF AUTHORITY] appears to have instructed you to collect an unpaid ticket.

 

This notice directs that you are not being given entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and your entitlement to charge a Walking Possessions fee stands revoked. Please be advised that if your fees are found to contradictSchedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993 you may be liable for criminal prosecution under the Fraud Act 2006. Without corresponding with you further I will also automatically file a Form 4 at court.

 

I confirm that I have lodged an appeal with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton and I understand this halts enforcement and your fees now stand revoked.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property and it is an offence to threaten me with breaking and entering with "locksmiths".

 

Please provide me with a breakdown of your fees, put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

[Bigfishnet]

Hi Burp

 

Thanks for your reply , shall I post or PM you exactly what was left with me and that I signed?

 

This looks very promising I just can't believe that these people can get away with this.

 

I'm just cautious that the information I have given you is correct and that I may have misled you with the forms etc.....

[Guest BURP]

Yes you can post a scanned document but hide personal details and references.

[Bigfishnet]

Hi there

 

Here are the documents I was talking about . The ONLY one that has a signature is the Inventory which has mine (twice) and the Bailiffs

 

 

1) Notice of Seizure left (visit1)

2) The reverse side of above where the WPA should be signed (visit2)

3) The Inventory which both he and me signed (visit2)

 

Any comments on these would be much appreciated I just can't believe how unprofessional all of this is considering its legally enforceable.

Notice Of Seizure.doc

Table of Fees.doc

Inventory.doc

Edited November 18, 2008 by Bigfishnet
Resize images...again sorry

[Guest BURP]

I cant read the documents because they are too small to be legible. The law prescribing fees for unpaid parking tickets is Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993. Broadly the maximum fees a bailiff can charge is £11.28 for a letter, 28% on the first £200 and 5.5% thereafter. It allows reasonable costs for transporting a debtors goods that have been siezed. If the bailiff has not moved your goods then Van fees/Attending to Remove/Other fees etc £0.00. If there is no valid Walking Possession Agreement signed by you then the Walking Possession fee is also £0.00. A £95 ticket (for example) inc the £5 court fess with no goods moved and nothing signed has a maximum prescribed legally enforceable bailiffs fee of £44.42 Inc VAT. Ge tthose letters off and ask the bailiff to pay you reasonable compensation, no positive reply from the bailiff then you can make an offical complaint against the bailiff and the serious stuff begins. Call the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court certificated the bailiff and complete a Form 4 http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and sent it to court.

[Bigfishnet]

Hi Burp

 

Yes I'm sorry they are now Word Docs hence all the frantic edits.

[Bigfishnet]

Hmm an interesting development. Tried the Ministry of Justice number and they said he was Certified in a different CC and his Certification expired in 2005.

 

However when ringing the CC on the Notice CC they confirmed he was Certificated until Aug 2010.

 

Apparently the Certificates only run for 2 years and its up to the CCourts to notify the Ministry of Justice which it appears they don't seem to do very quickly.

 

Its worth making sure that you contact the County Court if you know it before the Ministry and make sure you tell them you are checking on the Certification status NOT whether he is a Bailiff of the Court , I nearly made this mistake as the very helpful lady didn't really understand initially what I was asking for.

 

I understand there is a huge difference.

[Guest BURP]

A big difference, the bailiff must be a cerificated bailiff. I've looked at your documents, I can see no justification for these £600+ the bailiff is asking for. Marston are well & truly ripping you off! You have signed a document but under duress so there is no fee due. How much noise do you want to make?

[Voxter]

The bailiff levied on your car without giving you reasonable opportunity to pay. This commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 because he has unlawfully increased his fees by making a false representation. The bailiff charged fees for levying on goods without contacting the debtor beforehand.

 

 

Burp a levy fee is part of legislation, of course he can levy on the car without asking for payment. after all isnt the bailiff there to levy distraint in the first place ?

[Guest BURP]

No he isn't. His job is to collect unpaid parking tickets. The bailiff levies on goods when the debtor is unable or unwilling to pay. You & I have had this discussion before http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/168509-bailiff-double-charging-vehicle.html posts 14-22

[Bigfishnet]

A big difference, the bailiff must be a cerificated bailiff. I've looked at your documents, I can see no justification for these £600+ the bailiff is asking for. Marston are well & truly ripping you off! You have signed a document but under duress so there is no fee due. How much noise do you want to make?

 

Burp you won't believe how much noise I want to make, I am still seething at the injustice of all of this and how the Police just stood back and let it all happen.

 

So to be clear the starting point other than TEC is to send the letter to Marston's. An email is on its way now along with a posted one tomorrow first thing with the threat of Form 4 to his issuing Court , might make them sit up a little and listen

[Guest BURP]

Lets see what comes from this lot so far then we can move on to police and all that. You have more than enough evidence to have police pull the bailiff into a police station for questioning under caution.

[PizzaMaker]

Looking at the seizure notice and fee scale, it seems the bailiff has charged you a first visit, attendance to remove and a van fee. This adds up to the amount of £544. After securing your goods it looks like a 2nd visit may have been added. Was this all on the same day?

[Voxter]

Lets see what comes from this lot so far then we can move on to police and all that. You have more than enough evidence to have police pull the bailiff into a police station for questioning under caution.

 

maybe get the same police that let him in the house lol

[Bigfishnet]

Looking at the seizure notice and fee scale, it seems the bailiff has charged you a first visit, attendance to remove and a van fee. This adds up to the amount of £544. After securing your goods it looks like a 2nd visit may have been added. Was this all on the same day?

 

Hi Pizzamaker

 

No documents 1&2 (the notice of Seizure and Table of Fess are the same document they come from Visit 1 on the Friday)

 

Document 3 (Inventory) was what he left me on the 2nd visit after he entered my house whilst the Police were there.

 

Incidentally where on the prescribed list of fees under the legislation does Van fee appear?

 

However this is straight off the Drakes/Marston's Website:

Scale of Fees.

 

Right at the bottom is what I think they are charging for:

 

 

Schedule of Non Statutory Charges

(due if incurred) Description Maximum Charge

£ Credit card handling fee 3% Debit card handling fee 1.00 HPI vehicle check Up to 30.00 Tracing Up to 40.00 Attendance to remove goods (ATR) Up to 120.00 Immobilisation - clamp Up to 50.00 Removal of vehicle (up to and including large van) Up to 150.00 Removal of vehicle (heavy goods vehicle) Up to 250.00 Removal of vehicle (cancelled tow truck) Up to 100.00 Storage of vehicle (per day) 20.00

 

So you're right he has charged an ATR on the first visit and then another on the second which bumps up his fees. Interesting that it states (due if incurred) seems like they ALWAYS are incurred regardless.

 

The implication is that although not prescribed under the law this is what they charge

 

The silly thing is that had the charges been reasonable at around £250 I probably could/would have paid him and continued the dispute I have with Hackney but his/Marston's actions and outrageous "phantom" charges have precipitated all of this.

 

I think maybe a letter to Hackney in the same vein as to Marston's re the irregular charging is also appropriate as well so they understand exactly how these operate as their Agents.

[Bigfishnet]

maybe get the same police that let him in the house lol

 

Voxter ....don't

 

The trouble is that although in hindsight about as useful as a chocolate teapot the officers were quite pleasant after a while.

 

Well one was from the start the other was somewhat aggressive in his attitude to start with wondering why I had called them out as the Bailiff had been here already on the Friday.....too much good cop bad cop and the Sweeney I think!

[Guest BURP]

Looking at their non-statutory fees, it definitely shows the bailiff is vexatious and is making up their fees ad-lib. You have plenty of grounds to put the bailiff on a Form 4. Non statutory means you have no statutory obligation to pay them. The police officers were only polite only to placate you because they knew you can report them for assisting an offender once they quietly realised you are being blatantly ripped off by a bailiff in their presence and the bailiff was using them as a cover because you couldnt really dispute his fees at the scene without knowledge of fee regulations. I would make the shortest route to a Form 4 and quickly put the bailiffs in front of the judge once 14 days is up.

[borobabe]

I have read this thread with interest. I have also recently had a visit from Marstons and will be looking into the charges they added on to my debt. Fortunately the bailiff that turned up at my door was pleasant.

[Guest BURP]

If you look smart bailiffs usually are pleasant but that doesnt make unlawfully charged fees lawful. It only means there is a more diplomatic approach in asking the bailiff to compensate you for his fee error. Excuse me sir I'm here to burgle your house.

[Bigfishnet]

I have read this thread with interest. I have also recently had a visit from Marstons and will be looking into the charges they added on to my debt. Fortunately the bailiff that turned up at my door was pleasant.

 

 

I agree totally with Burp here.Can't say the Bailiff who turned up on the 1st visit was unpleasant or aggressive just charging for stuff which he had no right to charge for inm the first place.

 

However that all changed on the 2nd visit when he sensed I wasn't going to let him in and began questioning the fees etc......

 

That's when the whole business of the foot in the door, Police called etc...occured...."Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" so anyone else BEWARE they can and WILL squirm their way in any chance they get.

 

Take a look at the Marston website and see how "nice" and understanding they appear on the face of it especially in the "Debtors Guide" section (which makes even MORE mad).

 

The REALITY is what I have experienced over the last few days.

 

I will keep you all posted as to how all this pans out. The next installment is this Friday ,assuming they come back, unless Hackney tell them otherwise.

[Bigfishnet]

Just a quick follow up:

 

All the forms were recevied yesterday TEC and they have processed the application (i.e its been "accepted" by them and all the forms are correct etc....)

 

They immediately email the Council who then should suspend Bailiff action (tomorrow in this case)

 

The lady said that if you have any trouble tomorrow to call them and they will contact Hackney.Looks like this system does work.

 

Letters have also gone off to Marston as per Burp's suggestion (thank you).

 

Hackney have received a formal complaint against the action taken by Marston as their Agent with a copy of the letter I sent to Marston's and the documents the Bailiff left with me.

 

I'll keep you informed of what happens next.

[Bigfishnet]

Right then we have had some progress on this matter.

 

The Council have confirmed that they are appealing the Out of Time Statutory Declaration on the grounds of they sent the letters etc......no surprise there I think.They have given me a copy of the Statement of Truth signed by them I will check to make sure the person actually is an employee of the Council

 

I also sent a formal letter of complaint to Marston which they have responded to saying they have acted within the law but STILL not breaking down the charges interestingly enough.

 

At the same time I sent a formal complaint to the Council asking them to investigate my complaint about Marston's.

 

The reply is interesting

 

Marstons now claim the Bailiff visited on the morning and left a letter PRIOR to the visit in the evening. As I work from home and my wife was at home all day until 3.00pm this is a lie.

 

The charges have finally been broken down as follows in this letter from the Council NOT from Marston's.

 

£403.71 (see breakdown)

£185 for the PCN

£218.71 for related charges,"...Letter from Marston's , one visit and Attendance to remove"

(This was the amount he was going to "discount" to if I paid then and there.)

£544.71 "As above with the addition of a van fee" which apparently can be charged even if goods are not removed.As they all drive around in Vans all the time does this mean they charge EVERYONE this fee

£631.57 "The above fees plus second visit fees"

 

Now according to the Council all the charges were ......"correct and in line with the guidelines approved by the Ministry of Justice for the Collection of Fixed Penalties under the Road Traffic Act 1991 and Traffic Mangment Act 2004."

 

So are they right because I thought the fees were prescribed under the Distress for Rent legislation which were amended in 2003 with an increase in the percentages etc.....

 

They also stated that the Bailiff called the Police ..."to prevent a breach of the peace..." another mistruth I called 999 when he wouldn't remove his foot from the door.

 

There are a number of other things as well which I am seeking clarification on from the Council but I'm a little unclear as the what happens next

 

Assuming the TEC uphold the Councils opposition are there any further grounds for appeal of the Ticket (which I feel VERY strongly about) i.e the Parking Adjudicator etc....or is this now too late and has to be done via a N224 Application to set aside

 

In this case does the local County Court Judge look at the whole picture i.e the ticket itself ,my appeal etc, actions, charges of the Bailiff etc.... or is it simply just to check that the ticket issued was valid and what are the possible outcomes?

[tomtubby]

I can confirm that these fees are NOT RIGHT and this was confirmed by District Judge Plaskow in a Detailed Assessment hearing against Marston Group and the company know this !! This DA was instigated by a Barrister and our office have a copy of the 62 page Judgment. Perhaps you should remind Marston of this and ask the company to reconsider their charges !!

 

Second point. The Statment of Truth from the LA needs to be quite specific. Has it been signed by a SENIOR staff member at the local authority. It MUST be. Can you check whether the person is fron the LA or bailiff company.

 

Next. I do not know what you put on your Out of Time . It should have been on the PE2 that you had made a representation and that you had not received a response. On the PE3 ALL THAT IS NEEDED is to provide a REASON why you are applying LATE. This part is so very important and many people get confused by this.

 

The statement of truth from the local authority is vitally important because IT CAN ONLY DEAL WITH THE REASON WHY YOU HAVE APPLIED LATE. The majority of the Statements that our office sees are merely a history of the PCN. This is NOT SUFFICIENT.

[Bigfishnet]

Thank you Tomtubby

 

I was wondering why they are so coy about breaking down the charges, I must thanks the LA for being so transparent about what the fees were for.

 

The LA also want to wash their hands of this matter and told me to contact Marston direct if I was still unhappy about the actions of their Bailiff. I will respectfully reply to them saying that they are fully responsible for Marston's actions and ask them to escalate the complaint to the next level whilst still trying to get a declaration from Marston's saying their charges are lawful etc.....It might be appropriate after this to point them to the Detailed Assessment judgement you so kindly mentioned.

 

As I type this now I am on hold and have been for 20mins while the LA try and find the mysterious signatory on the Statement of Truth, at the very least I suspect he/she is not a Senior employee of the LA (title is Debt Recovery Advisor) but he/she does use their headed paper.Been cut off. Phoned again, no-one in the Debt Recovery section to answer my query but because there are notes on the system they assume the signatory must be an employee.

 

I contacted HR and they did a search of the signatory's name and the name did not appear. However they did say their systems could be limited in scope. They will get back to me.Will keep you posted on the outcome.Could it be that the Debt Recovery team are Marston's themselves working out of a LA office and using their letterhead etc....?

 

As regards the PE2/3 forms the reason I gave was simply that I hadn't received anything from the LA since the my Representation/Appeal in May until Marston turned up at the door.

 

All the Statement of Fact details is the historical record process of what documents they sent to me and the fact that I hadn't responded to them not much else really. I can copy and post this taking out all the identifiers if it helps.

 

All your help so far has been invaluable and I hope that this thread may help more people in the future.