MBNA, Request Reduced Interest/CCA or Both

[crisis]

Hi

 

I have been reading on this website for a couple of weeks now though only joined and posted for the first time this week.

 

I have two cards with MBNa, lucky me!

 

One has always been MBNA, taken out in 1993 (balance apx 10K)

One was Abbey (UW by MBNA) recently become a MBNA card with a new number in last two months.(Balance apx 5.5k)

 

The interest have both recently been increased dramitacally to 34.9% like many others and is crippling at best and not reducing the o/s balance at all at worst.

 

Best course of action, both accounts have been kept upto date, however the only reason for this is because of support from my family.

 

From what I have read on here MBNA do not like to seem to like to agree to lower repayments terms (I could manage about 1% of O/S balance monthly) or reduced interest. So is it worth asking, and if so what is the best approach, I have seen various letters but not sure best one to start with.

 

If I ask them to accept lower repayment and freeze/reduce interest am I admiting that the debt is mine and therefore not worth asking for a CCA. or is it best to start with a cca, and take it from there, from what i have read i am concerned about putting a signature on any letter as they might try and copy it.

 

Any advice welcome and I will of course keep the thread updated, thankyou

[moonwhich7]

Hello Crisis

 

Welcome. I am definitely a novice with regards to giving advice but until someone more qualified pops in I will tell you what I have learned through my own dealings with MBNA.

 

I noticed that you said that your first card was issued in 1993. It would seem that it is highly unlikely that they would be able to produce an enforceble agreement as they do not keep the original copy on paper after so many years. My mothers card was issued in 1994 and they have not been able to supply the original terms/conditions, which would have been on the back of her application. I was sent the front of the signed application form which was illegible due to it being printed from a computor data base and a seperate copy of present day T/Cs. This basically means they cannot enforce the debt.

 

You didn't say when the second card was issued but if it is around the same time the situation could be the same.

 

This might explain it better.

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

Those who are familiar with the workings of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) and its vast array of complex regulations will know of the detailed documentation requirements as to the form and content of consumer credit agreements. If the agreement is not in the prescribed form and does not contain the prescribed terms then under s61 of the CCA it is improperly executed. The effect of this is that the creditor cannot then seek to enforce the agreement unless he obtains an enforcement order from the court (s65 CCA). The court usually has discretion when considering whether to grant an enforcement order. However, there are certain types of contravention which do not allow the court to intervene and the agreement then becomes totally unenforceable. S127(3) of the CCA provides that the court shall not make an enforcement order if the agreement fails to provide the "prescribed terms". The prescribed terms are set out in schedule 6 to the Consumer Credit (Agreement) Regulations 1983. These include a "term stating the amount of the credit", the rate of interest charged, and the number, amount and frequency of repayments

 

The majority of credit agreements are unenforceable because do not comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 74).

 

 

 

 

There are many reasons a Credit Agreement can be unenforceable some of which are listed below

• The rate of interest is not shown on the agreement
  
• The agreement is not signed
  
• Number of instalments not shown
  
• Dates not in place
  
• Total amount repayable not shown
  
• Amount of credit borrowed
  
• No Signature
  
• The agreement does not state correctly how the borrower will make repayments
  

Hope this gives you something to consider while you are waiting for other options of tackling your situation.

 

 

Have a look around for other threads regarding questionable agreements. If you do decide to go down this route be prepared for a battle as there will be lots of toys flung out of the MBNA pram. You will however look forward to flinging them back with the support you get from this site.

 

 

Moon

Edited November 14, 2008 by moonwhich7

[crisis]

Hi moon, thanks for your reply brilliant site:)

 

I think the Abbey card was issued in 2003 (i am unable to find my records pre this date for this card), but might have been earlier, they have recently changed it from an Abbey Card (underwritten by MBNA)to MBNA card and also wondered if this had any bearing on what CCA may be enforceable.

 

I see some great support on this site, and hopefully will become knowledgeable myself and will be able to help others in the future with the experiances I have.

[SteveH2508]

If it is a card they took over from someone else it is very likely that they are stuffed. My 'account' (ex BoS) had an illegible microfiche as their 'copy' and they do not have the original T&Cs.

 

Be aware that if you do decide to exercise your right to withhold payments you will be in for a long haul of phone-calls, threat-o-grams, postcards and pink elephants! Eventually they will sell it on to some pond-life DCA and the whole process continues. They will also use red crayons to scribble all over your credit file as well.

[SB100]

I would send them a CCA request, and also make a subject access request to see exactly what they have on file. As mentioned above, its quite possible they won't have anything for the older card, and you might be lucky with the newer one as well.

 

MBNA apparently don't keep paperwork for more than six years, so the statement they send with the SAR probably won't be any use to them as they won't be able to prove the opening balance. This is discussed, at length, elsewhere on these pages.

 

My advice, for what its worth, is to try and keep up the payments until they are in default of either the CCA (12 working days) or SAR (30 days inc saturday / sunday) and see what they have before you make a decision.

 

Hope this helps

[hammyhound]

Hi

 

I have been reading on this website for a couple of weeks now though only joined and posted for the first time this week.

 

I have two cards with MBNa, lucky me!

 

One has always been MBNA, taken out in 1993 (balance apx 10K)

One was Abbey (UW by MBNA) recently become a MBNA card with a new number in last two months.(Balance apx 5.5k)

 

The interest have both recently been increased dramitacally to 34.9% like many others and is crippling at best and not reducing the o/s balance at all at worst.

 

Best course of action, both accounts have been kept upto date, however the only reason for this is because of support from my family.

 

From what I have read on here MBNA do not like to seem to like to agree to lower repayments terms (I could manage about 1% of O/S balance monthly) or reduced interest. So is it worth asking, and if so what is the best approach, I have seen various letters but not sure best one to start with.

 

If I ask them to accept lower repayment and freeze/reduce interest am I admiting that the debt is mine and therefore not worth asking for a CCA. or is it best to start with a cca, and take it from there, from what i have read i am concerned about putting a signature on any letter as they might try and copy it.

 

Any advice welcome and I will of course keep the thread updated, thankyou

 

Hi, I was in the same boat as yourself. Asked them to accept lower payments which they duly did on their terms. The lower repayment was still crippling me. Couldn't afford it anymore, didn't pay for 3 months got the usual we will put a charging order on your house routine, we are an American company so don't have the same rules as British credit card companies!!!!!

 

Despite a reduced payment plan they will still harass you every day asking if you can pay just that little bit more. 3 times at home, 3 times at work and 3 times on my mobile. They even left messages on work's night service for me at weekends.

 

I loathe them:x

 

Like yourself I only found this site a couple of weeks ago. Threatened to tell my employers etc. CCA'd them a few weeks ago. Today received a letter offering me a 65% discount on the balance so therefore I assume they do not have the CCA. Take the advice from people on here they are really informative and helpful have guided me through some difficult times. CCA MBNA what have you got to lose.

 

Hammy

[crisis]

Thanks for all the advice/thoughts.

 

I think I am going to go for sending a request for CCA, nothing to loose and if no response or no vaild agreement received then will reduce payments to a monthly gesture of goodwill and respond suitably to any letter I receive (some great templates on here, but might have to check which one to get it right).

 

If they do come up with one then will request lower repayments, all in writing on a positive they do not have my current phone numbers!

 

Going to sleep on it tonight and I will update with the action I am taking and responses I get as received.

 

Thanks all

[hammyhound]

Thanks for all the advice/thoughts.

 

I think I am going to go for sending a request for CCA, nothing to loose and if no response or no vaild agreement received then will reduce payments to a monthly gesture of goodwill and respond suitably to any letter I receive (some great templates on here, but might have to check which one to get it right).

 

If they do come up with one then will request lower repayments, all in writing on a positive they do not have my current phone numbers!

 

Going to sleep on it tonight and I will update with the action I am taking and responses I get as received.

 

Thanks all

 

Crisis,

 

If they don't produce the CCA don't pay them another penny, I have learnt a lot on this site and one thing you don't do is make anymore payments to them (providing you have given them 12 days once your letter is received). I am now at the "we can give you a discount of 65% of your balance stage", waiting for the next letter. I am still getting the odd phone call from the accounts manager which I am ignoring.

 

This site gave me lots of confidence. Keep coming back and checking up.

 

Hammyhound

[crisis]

Well i have sent of my first CCA requested lets see what is returned!, 12 days + 2 to go

[hammyhound]

Be prepared for the barage (spelling) of telephone calls but they have still sent me nothing but I did receive a lovely letter from them asking if I wanted a secured loan:lol:

 

Your card was probably about the same time as mine.

 

Keep updating us. I will let you know if I hear anything as well.

 

Hammyhound

[Fred Bassett]

Hi all,

 

This is a little taster of what you can expect from MBNA:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/166809-mbna-monty.html

 

Everyone's favourite is the pink pig.

 

Regards.

 

Fred