Gross Misconduct

[MrForce]

I am to attend a disciplinary hearing for gross misconduct.

 

I had completed a transaction not following company procedures and have been accused of completing the procedure to defraud the company of company monies.

 

I admit to completing the transaction with full intention to pay a client but with errors in cashing up and not fully informing my manager about said transaction, I now find myself in hot water.

 

I must stipulate that at no time was any monies removed from my till regarding said transaction. The cashing up procedure does not show the balance of the payment but shows more than half..

 

I had an investigative interview and in all honesty bottled it. I was speechless and could not believe it was taken this far.

 

The investigator repeatedly told me my best options were to resign but I didnt think I warranted this response.

 

Any more info required just ask.

[Lookingtobuy]

Have you recived the investigation notes?

 

I don't understand why an investigator would be recommending you resign, they are there to investigate.

 

I take it you are suspended on full-pay?

[MrForce]

Thanks for replying Lookingtobuy.

 

Yes I have the notes and I am suspended on full pay.

[Lookingtobuy]

Firstly, you'd be mad to resign before you have to- you could leave it as late as the morning of the disciplinary to resign.

 

When is your disco and when did you receive the paperwork?

 

On the investigation notes does it highlight how the investigator was recommending you resign?

[MrForce]

I'm attending the hearing although I haven't received the paperwork as of yet to as when it is and so forth.

 

The investigation notes do not highlight how he was recommending my resignation or any remark he made except that he will recommend dismissal.

[Lookingtobuy]

I do not believe it is for him to "recommend" anything. It is for him as an investigating officer to establish the facts- interview people, confirms dates, actions, etc.

 

He should then pass it onto a seperate party who will then make a decision of whether or not there is a case for a hearing or not.

 

And then it should be a different person again who actually conducts the disciplinary, and I'm sure they should not have had any recommenedations from anyone- the investigating officer, your boss, etc.

 

I might be wrong but I think that is dodgy.

 

Also did you sign and date the notes taken from your investigation meeting to confirm that what they had scribed was an accurate reflection on your meeting?

[MrForce]

He put this under the findings header.

 

I did sign but not date, the notes from the meeting.

 

I was informed that the notes will be passed onto a different person who will conduct the hearing.

[Sidewinder]

I absolutely agree with Lookingtobuy - the investigator should not be recommending anything other that in his opinion the matter warrants a disciplinary hearing. His opinion is prejudicial and a breach of the disciplinary process, as is his advice that you should resign before you have actually been found guilty of anything.

 

You should never resign your position without a correctly drawn up compromise agreement guaranteeing (at least) a mutually acceptable reference. In resigning you would lose basic employment rights with little means of redress, and the employer would still be at liberty to advise a future employer that you resigned whilst the subject of a disciplinary hearing.

 

You should go ahead with a disciplinary hearing and make sure that this is carried out properly, which should mean that you have:-

 

1. Written notice of the meeting, an outline of the allegation, and a warning as to what the result might be if you are deemed guilty.

2. The right to have a witness (work colleague or TU Rep) present

3. Written details of the findings and outcome, together with a right to appeal.

 

A crucial issue though is how long you have worked there. If less than 12 months then the fact that they may breach procedure is irrelevant as you may not bring a case for Unfair Dismissal unless you believe that their actions were discriminatory.

[MrForce]

Unfortunately I'm 10 days away from 12 months service, I didn't know this was a crucial matter in any such proceedings. Do this mean I have even less in my favour come the hearing. Although the job is not the greatest, I did enjoy it mostly and wonder if I am dismiss would it reflect badly on my future employability.

[Sidewinder]

Right. The situation is that if the employer fails to follow procedure, then any subsequent dismissal is 'automatically unfair', however the law says that you may not bring a case of Unfair Dismissal to a Tribunal until you have completed 12 months service unless the dismissal is due to one of certain exceptions permitted, most notably in circumstances of discrimination.

 

Unless you believe that this is the case, sadly you have a dilemma. The employer can in essence dismiss you for any reason he chooses, safe in the knowledge that there is little you can do. How likely is it that you can defend yourself against this allegation? It may be time to discuss the resignation option after all.....

Edited November 7, 2008 by Sidewinder

[callumsgran]

When exactly is the disciplinary?

[MrForce]

My managers says I should fight the case and both are willing to speak on my behalf but I feel more and more depressed just thinking about.

My former manager is willing to attend the hearing with me. My current manager will also stand for me. Its the uncertainty of the outcome will be that troubles me most.

[patdavies]

I would both fight the case and find a reason to delay the disciplinary hearing and get over the 12 month threshold.

 

1) you are entitled to be accompanied by a trade union rep or colleague of your choice - it could be difficult to arrange for such a thing before your anniversary.

2) If they give you less than 7 days notice of the disciplinary and the details, then write back and ask that the meeting be delayed in order for you to have adequate time to prepare a defence.

3) Just go sick for a week.

[callumsgran]

I would both fight the case and find a reason to delay the disciplinary hearing and get over the 12 month threshold.

 

1) you are entitled to be accompanied by a trade union rep or colleague of your choice - it could be difficult to arrange for such a thing before your anniversary.

2) If they give you less than 7 days notice of the disciplinary and the details, then write back and ask that the meeting be delayed in order for you to have adequate time to prepare a defence.

3) Just go sick for a week.

Thats just what i did, went sick for a month due to stress just to take me over the 12 month mark

My case didnt ever get to tribunal but it is a legitimate way of extending the time frame

 

 

Thats why i asked when the disciplinary was as i was going to advise the same thing, but OP didnt reply

[MrForce]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I was told I would receive the date & time for discplinary in the post. I am now awaiting that now. Been off the site due to my partner having dicky tummy. So had my hands full with the bairns.

 

The going sick part, I dont understand as I'm currently suspended. So how would I go about doing that? Although I dont think I will.

[callumsgran]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I was told I would receive the date & time for discplinary in the post. I am now awaiting that now. Been off the site due to my partner having dicky tummy. So had my hands full with the bairns.

 

The going sick part, I dont understand as I'm currently suspended. So how would I go about doing that? Although I dont think I will.

Its easy, even if you are suspended you are still in their employ so you go to the doc and tell them you're having problems at work (dont tell them what problems) and get him to sign you off with stress (however long it takes to take you over the 12 months limit) easy!!!!!!

[MrForce]

My hearing has been confirmed as Thursday 20th Nov. Just to let you know.

 

I'm wishing myself good luck.

[callumsgran]

My hearing has been confirmed as Thursday 20th Nov. Just to let you know.

 

I'm wishing myself good luck.

Good luck hun

 

 

 

Does that take you over your 12 month anniversary then?

[MrForce]

Hi guys. Thanks for all the help.

 

I wasn't dismissed but am on a final warning for 12 months.

 

Once again thanks for the perceived hope you instilled into to me.

 

My Manager also going to have words with investigative officer regarding his repeated pressuring of "forcing" me to resign. He was not at all happy with this.

[callumsgran]

Thats a good result hun

Well done