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    • Thank you very much for your help. To answer your two questions:  1. I did not send a CPR request when the Claim Form arrived. 2. They did send a claim form, in March 2023. This is the document from which I copied the particulars of their claim.  
    • Thanks. That's a lot to wade through.  Will get on to it. Two other quick questions. Did you send them a CPR request when the claim form arrived? Are you sure they didn't send a Letter of Claim before they sued you?
    • Hi there, Which Court have you received the claim from? MCOL (County Court Business Centre, Northampton) Name of the Claimant: Uk Parking Control Limited Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal Date of issue: March 2023 Following events: — DQ sent to me July 2023 — I filed a DQ in September 2023 — My claim was transferred to [my local court] September 2023 — Received Notice of Allocation to Small Claims Track (Hearing) including date for hearing in April 2024 — Witness statement due by May 14 — Claimant must pay court fees by May 17 — Court hearing on June 18   What is the claim for –  1. The defendant is indebted to the claimant for a Parking Charge issued at [x] issued to vehicle [__] at Walcot Yard, Walcot Road, Bath, Ba1 5bg. 2. The PCN details are [___]. 3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on Cs signs (the Contract), this incurring the PCNs. 4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN is outstanding. The Contract entitles C to damages.  AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. £160 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of [x]p until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees   What is the value of the claim? ~260 Amount Claimed ~170 court fees ~35 legal rep fees ~50 Total Amount  ~260 Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? No Here is the defence I filed:  DEFENCE 1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars. The facts as known to the Defendant: 2. It is admitted that on the material date the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, but liability is denied. 3. While working at a nearby premises, [___] the Defendant was informed by the manager that they had an informal verbal agreement with the developer and owner operator of [___], which supposedly allowed them to park there. Based on this information, the Defendant parked their car there in good faith. The Defendant was not aware of any restrictions or limitations to this agreement, and therefore believed that they had the right to park there without penalty. 4. The Defendant avers that the Claimant failed to serve a Notice to Keeper compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Consequently, the claimant cannot transfer liability for this charge to the Defendant as keeper of the vehicle. 5. The Particulars of Claim ('POC') appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action”. 6. The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case is being pursued. 7. The POC are entirely inadequate, in that they fail to particularise (a) the contractual term(s) relied upon; (b) the specifics of any alleged breach of contract; and (c) how the purported and unspecified 'damages' arose and the breakdown of the exaggerated quantum. 8. The claim has been issued via Money Claims Online and, as a result, is subject to a character limit for the Particulars of Claim section of the Claim Form. The fact that generic wording appears to have been applied has obstructed any semblance of clarity. The Defendant trusts that the court will agree that a claim pleaded in such generic terms lacks the required details and requires proper particularisation in a detailed document within 14 days, per 16PD.3 9. The guidance for completing Money Claims Online confirms this and clearly states: "If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra, more detailed particulars on the defendant, tick the box that appears after the statement 'you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant.'" 10. No further particulars have been filed and to the Defendant's knowledge, no application asking the court service for more time to serve and/or relief from sanctions has been filed either. 11. In view of it having been entirely within the Claimant's Solicitors' gift to properly plead the claim at the outset and the claim being for a sum, well within the small claims limit, such that the Defendant considers it disproportionate and at odds with the overriding objective (in the context of a failure by the Claimant to properly comply with rules and practice directions) for a Judge to throw the erring Claimant a lifeline by ordering further particulars (to which a further defence might be filed, followed by further referral to a Judge for directions and allocation) the court is respectfully invited to strike this claim out. 13. Whilst the new Code and Act is not retrospective, it was enacted due to the failure of the self-serving BPA & IPC Codes of Practice. The Minister is indisputably talking about existing (not future) cases when declaring that 'recovery' fees were 'designed to extort money'. A clear steer for the Courts which it is hoped overrides mistakes made in a few appeal cases that the parking industry desperately rely upon (Britannia v Semark-Jullien, One Parking Solution v Wilshaw, Vehicle Control Services v Ward and Vehicle Control Services v Percy). 14. Far from being persuasive, regrettably these one-sided appeals saw Circuit Judges led in one direction by Counsel for parking firms, and the litigant-in-person consumers lacked the wherewithal to appeal. In case this Claimant tries to rely upon these, the Defendant avers that errors were made in every case. Evidence was either overlooked (including signage discrepancies in Wilshaw, where the Judge was also oblivious to the BPA Code of Practice and the DVLA KADOE requirement for landowner authority) or the Judge inexplicably sought out and quoted from the wrong Code altogether (Percy). In Ward, a few seconds' emergency stop out of the control of the driver was unfairly aligned with the admitted parking contract in Beavis. Those learned Judges were not in possession of the same level of information as the DLUHC, whose incoming statutory Code of Practice now clarifies such matters as a definition of 'parking' as well as consideration and grace periods and minor matters such as 'keying errors' or 'fluttering tickets/permits' where a PCN should not have been issued at all, or should have been cancelled in the pre-action dispute phase. POFA and CRA breaches 15. Pursuant to Schedule 4 paragraph 4(5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('the POFA') the sum claimed exceeds the maximum potentially recoverable from a registered keeper, even in cases where a firm may have complied with other POFA requirements (adequate signage, Notice to Keeper wording/dates, and a properly communicated 'relevant contract/relevant obligation'). If seeking keeper/hirer liability - unclear from the POC - the Claimant is put to strict proof of full compliance and liability transferred. 16. Claiming costs on an indemnity basis is unfair, per the Unfair Contract Terms Guidance (CMA37, para 5.14.3), the Government guidance on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ('CRA'). The CRA introduced new requirements for 'prominence' of both contract terms and 'consumer notices'. In a parking context, this includes signage and all notices, letters and other communications intended to be read by the consumer. 17. Section 71 creates a duty upon courts to consider the test of fairness, including (but not limited to) whether all terms/notices were unambiguously and conspicuously brought to the attention of a consumer. Signage must be prominent, plentiful, well placed and lit, and all terms unambiguous and obligations clear. The Defendant avers that the CRA has been breached due to unfair/unclear terms and notices, pursuant to s62 and paying due regard to examples 6, 10, 14 & 18 of Schedule 2 and the requirements for fair/open dealing and good faith. ParkingEye v Beavis is distinguished (lack of legitimate interest/prominence of terms) 18. ParkingEye overcame the possibility of their £85 charge being dismissed as punitive, however the Supreme Court clarified that ‘the penalty rule is plainly engaged’ in parking cases, which must each be determined on their own facts. That 'unique' case met a commercial justification test, and took into account the prominent yellow/black uncluttered signs with £85 in the largest/boldest text. Rather than causing other parking charges to be automatically justified, the Beavis case facts set a high bar that this Claimant has failed to reach. 19. Paraphrasing from the Supreme Court, deterrence is likely to be penal if there is a lack of a 'legitimate interest' in performance extending beyond the prospect of compensation flowing directly from the alleged breach. The intention cannot be to punish a driver, nor to present them with hidden terms, unexpected/cumbersome obligations nor 'concealed pitfalls or traps'. 20. In the present case, the Claimant has fallen foul of those tests. The Claimant’s small signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, and are considered incapable of binding a driver. Consequently, it remains the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous 'penalty' was seen or agreed. Binding Court of Appeal authorities which are on all fours with a case involving unclear terms and a lack of ‘adequate notice’ of a parking charge, include: (i) Spurling v Bradshaw [1956] 1 WLR 461 (‘red hand rule’) and (ii) Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] EWCA Civ2, both leading authorities confirming that a clause cannot be incorporated after a contract has been concluded; and (iii) Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest: CA 5 Apr 2000, where Ms Vine won because it was held that she had not seen the terms by which she would later be bound, due to "the absence of any notice on the wall opposite the parking space'' (NB: when parking operator Claimants cite Vine, they often mislead courts by quoting out of context, Roch LJ's words about the Respondent’s losing case, and not from the ratio). 21. Fairness and clarity of terms and notices are paramount in the statutory Code and this is supported by the BPA & IPC Trade Bodies. In November 2020's Parking Review, solicitor Will Hurley, CEO of the IPC, observed: "Any regulation or instruction either has clarity or it doesn’t. If it’s clear to one person but not another, there is no clarity. The same is true for fairness. Something that is fair, by definition, has to be all-inclusive of all parties involved – it’s either fair or it isn’t. The introduction of a new ‘Code of Practice for Parking’ provides a wonderful opportunity to provide clarity and fairness for motorists and landowners alike." Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR 22. DVLA data is only supplied to pursue parking charges if there is an agreement flowing from the landholder (ref: KADOE rules). It is not accepted that this Claimant (an agent of a principal) has authority from the landowner to issue charges in this place in their own name. The Claimant is put to strict proof that they have standing to make contracts with drivers and litigate in their own name. 23. The Claimant failed to offer a genuinely independent Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). The Appeals Annex in the new incoming statutory Code shows that genuine disputes such as this would see the charge cancelled, had a fair ADR existed. Whether or not a person engaged with it, the Claimant's consumer blame culture and reliance upon the industry's own 'appeals service' should not sway the court into a belief that a fair appeal was ever on offer. The rival Trade Bodies' time-limited and opaque 'appeals' services fail to properly consider facts or rules of law and reject almost any dispute: e.g. the IAS upheld appeals in a woeful 4% of decided cases (IPC's 2020 Annual Report). Conclusion 24. The claim is entirely without merit. The Defendant believes that it is in the public interest that claims like this should be struck out because knowingly enhanced parking claims like this one cause consumer harm on a grand scale. 25. There is ample evidence to support the view - long held by many District Judges - that these are knowingly exaggerated claims. For HMCTS to only disallow those costs in the tiny percentage of cases that reach hearings whilst other claims to continue to flood the courts unabated, is to fail hundreds of thousands of consumers who suffer CCJs or pay inflated amounts, in fear of intimidating pre-action threats. 26. In the matter of costs, the Defendant asks: (a) at the very least, for standard witness costs for attendance at Court, pursuant to CPR 27.14, and (b) for a finding of unreasonable conduct by this Claimant, seeking costs pursuant to CPR 46.5. 27. Attention is drawn specifically to the (often-seen from this industry) distinct possibility of an unreasonably late Notice of Discontinuance. Whilst CPR r.38.6 states that the Claimant is liable for the Defendant's costs after discontinuance (r.38.6(1)) this does not normally apply to claims allocated to the small claims track (r.38.6(3)). However, the White Book states (annotation 38.6.1): "Note that the normal rule as to costs does not apply if a claimant in a case allocated to the small claims track serves a notice of discontinuance although it might be contended that costs should be awarded if a party has behaved unreasonably (r.27.14(2)(dg))." Statement of Truth I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Hi, I was caught by the security guards today for shoplifting in John Lewis. I think total amount is about £500. They said they saw me on CCTV last week, I was freaked out so I admitted it. I know it’s awful… I cried as I was too scared and begged them pls don’t call the police. They took pics of me and wrote down my details from banking app as I didn’t have any id with me. I told them my difficulties that I was scammed £35k recently and I lost my job so I stole those things and sell them. I apologised and they said they won’t call the police but I’m banned and will receive letters from RLP for fines which including this time and the last time(I didn’t give back the goods I took last time). I know it’s very very bad, I feel shameful and so depressed so hopeless about everything happened. I wonder since it’s a lot of money, will they sue me, take me to the court, or will they change their mind to call the police when they check the cctv footage to check how much I owe them? I said sorry I really couldn’t afford the fine at this situation, they said it’s their job they can’t do anything. Later when I was out of the mall, the security guard said, I can call RLP to negotiate about the fee. Also I’m probably moving to another city in 2 months, so if they want to take me to court but I didn’t receive any letters what should I do… and the security guy told me it’s worse as I traveled to this city and stealing stuff. I’m home now but feeling awful, wish people could give me some advice, thank you very much.
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CP Plus parking ticket on Morrisons car park


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Oh god, I'm dithering again now. £15 doesn't seem so bad... I can't be doing with letters and demands and writing letter after letter.... :(
Only you can make that decision.

 

Personally, I would write the one letter, informing them that they can lump it, and ignore anything else (short of actual stamped court documents).

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Chances of court: 1%

Chances of a victory in court: 1%

 

I like those odds. All you have to do is completely ignore (my preferred plan of action) or send off one of the template letters after you've received their first piece of absorbant paper.

 

£15 isn't a lot, but why pay anything just because someone is demanding it? If £15 appeared on your electricity bill out of the blue, would you pay?

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If £15 gives you peace of mind, by all means pay it.

 

However if you don't pay them, the odds are you will end up paying £0!

 

If you aren't sure you could send a letter asking on what legal grounds they are asking you to pay them money. They will write back a template letter and not respond directly to your question. But at least it will give you time to think about what to do.

 

It's up to you to make the call - others on here can tell you to ignore til the cows come home, but at the end of the day it's your decision.

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If £15 gives you peace of mind, by all means pay it.

 

However if you don't pay them, the odds are you will end up paying £0!

 

If you aren't sure you could send a letter asking on what legal grounds they are asking you to pay them money. They will write back a template letter and not respond directly to your question. But at least it will give you time to think about what to do.

 

It's up to you to make the call - others on here can tell you to ignore til the cows come home, but at the end of the day it's your decision.

 

I'm such a goody two shoes. I can think of a hundred people who wouldn't pay.

 

I did have a rant at the time but don't know if I've got the balls to follow it up.

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Do you really need balls? It only requires you to do absolutely nothing and ignore some letters that drop through your door.

 

The whole system relies on people paying up out of fear. If it didn't, you'd get one letter and then they'd take you to court. But that's the last thing they want to do. It's a percentages game - they only need half the people to pay up and it's a nice easy business to be in.

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Guys, I'm letting you all down, but I am going to pay.

 

It's been a week since they issued the ticket and I feel sick every time I think about it. Once the letters start arriving and the fee goes up, the stress will make me ill.

 

I hope CP Plus rots in Hell. :evil:

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nnnnoooooooooooooooooo dont pay!

 

i got one of these from cp plus in morrisons. (40 pound)

 

i followed the advice from here and didnt sent any money or letters or anything. after 6 weeks i got a solicitors letter telling me they were going to take me to court, reposese the dog, and put a bat up the wifes nightdress, result? - nothing happened.

another 4 weeks later i had a letter from the solicitors again virtually begging me to just give them any money, anything at all, or they would come and have me hung until i was dead and my limbs sent to the 4 corners of the empire as a warning to others. (ok i exaggerate slightly,)

now 6 months later nothing has happened. its a huge [problem] and if you pay the [problem] continues to get another person , (or mayby you again)

 

dont pay and either ignore the letters or send them one put up or shut up letter.

they will 99.99999999% likely not take you to court. if they did this forum would give you a watertight case i am sure. (but that academic, i know of no case of cp plus going to court).

even if they took you to court and won,(as if), as long as you paid, they could not affect your credit rating or send balliffs or anything else.

 

relax, drink your wine and follow the good people on this forums advice.

 

m.w.n.n.:)

Edited by manwithnoname
spolling
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If it is going to cause you stress and worry then I think you are right to pay, even though you have no moral obligation to do so. I am so used to fighting battles on a daily basis that refusing to pay a parking ticket my OH got was a walk in the park, and I am sure a lot of the others on here are the same. It's OK we will still be your friends if you do pay it - honest;)

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Guys, I'm letting you all down, but I am going to pay.

 

It's been a week since they issued the ticket and I feel sick every time I think about it. Once the letters start arriving and the fee goes up, the stress will make me ill.

 

I hope CP Plus rots in Hell. :evil:

Please don't pay. They cannot keep putting fees up. They are just trying to frighten you. This is really standard form from these companies. I know it can be very frightening but these guys write threatening letters for a living. There is plenty of advice to be had on these forums on how to defend their allegations.

 

Help send them to hell. Don't pay.

 

One thing we do know is that some of these companies pretend to be debt collectors and solicitors in order to put the frighteners on.

 

At best they are entitled to claim actual damages. They may be able to claim filing fees plus travel costs if they actually win. They are a long way from that.

 

What I would do is wait for them to issue court proceedings. If they do and you are still feeling really stressed about it you still have the option of paying up. But given the company they are very unlikely to go that far.

 

I don't know if you have done so but have a read of the Park Charges advice guide in the stickies. After you've read the guide apply it to the letter that you've received and take your stress levels down.

Edited by pin1onu

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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Guys, I'm letting you all down, but I am going to pay.

 

It's been a week since they issued the ticket and I feel sick every time I think about it. Once the letters start arriving and the fee goes up, the stress will make me ill.

 

I hope CP Plus rots in Hell. :evil:

 

Can you send me your address, I have an invoice for you...

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Make no mistake.This is corporate bullying. Don't give in to empty threats. If they can be bothered to take you to court there is plenty of help and advice at hand.Think of it logically. One- they have to prove you were driving. Two-they have to prove you were there for the time of the offence which would need video evidence. Three- the fine is grossly disproportionate to the offence committed. Parking costs about a £1 an hour. You work it out how much going 15 minutes over would cost you?

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Right then, balls to them. And they can send as many letters as they like, it's free toilet paper.

 

I spent good money in that store. I'm not bloody paying for the privilege.

 

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

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Heres an example for you. In the CO-Op they have 2 hours free parking. After that you are committing an offence,right. To prove this they would have to show over 2 hours of video evidence in court. Photographic evidence would not prove anything unless they have a photograph for every second you were there.PROOF is the key.Also you are legally entitled to a copy of any evidence to be used in a case brought against you which has to be sent to you well before any case free of charge.The company acting on the CO-Ops behalf told me they had photographic evidence of my offence. Yeah so what!! photos are STATIC.

 

I would like to add this does NOT apply if you get caught in a council car park or on double yellows.This only applies in PRIVATE car parks.Please park sensibly and safe driving.

Edited by fabbo
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  • 2 months later...

Hello everyone

 

I found this forum as I've been given an early xmas present in the form of a charge notice from CP Plus!

 

I just wanted a bit of advice if you'd be so kind - I parked in a Morrisons car park for about 6 hours. I had to leave my car behind at short notice and couldn't find anywhere else to park. It is a free car park but must have a time limit on it - although i've never seen any signs etc.

 

The notice I got was virtually identical to the one posted on here. My crime is overstaying the maximum free stay time. Probably by about 4 hours.

 

Is it worth ignoring this? I feel bad cos I know supermarket car parks aren't designed for non shoppers. The surrounding streets are all no parking between 8 and 6 so I was a bit stuck!

 

Presumably they would have case against me as I clearly outstayed my welcome?

 

Any advice appreciated :(

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  • 2 months later...

Good morning all,

 

Just a quick addition to the above - I work for Morrisons (not as a car park attendant!!)

 

I have watched the 'attendant' employed by these clowns - he makes every effort to avoid being seen......

 

As far as I am aware there is no employment arrangement with Morrisons (i.e. : the 'attendant' is not paid by Morrisons, nor do Morrisons pay the company. I am not aware of any 'sharing' of the proceeds of the 'attendants' work - but I do know he is employed by the clowns who issue the requests for payment.

 

It is possible that this may be an agreement between Morrisons and these clowns to the effect that the 'attendant' will keep the car park flowing (so to speak) and will be paid from the proceeds of his 'work', and in turn Morrisons will have the dubious benefit of good turnover by the frequent movement of vehicles in and out of the car park - the drivers having been misled into thinking they can only stay for a limited amount of time!

 

As an ex-police officer I agree that the issuing of a ticket is an attempt at theft, and if the Fraud Act 2006 is read I believe that the issuing of a ticket in the circumstances described is a complete offence - and should be reported to the police - BUT I do not believe they would take any action because of the relatively small amount (less than £1,000) involved - even though the Act does not place financial limits, I am sure this would be a 'guidelines for prosecution' matter, and would not be proceeded with.

 

The way around this could be to get a good number of people who have all had tickets in the same car park to complain.

 

All the best to everyone,

 

Dougal

Edited by Dougal16T
Quoted incorrect act!!
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