Why Should We Bail Out Fraudsters and Thieves?

[calvi36]

Hi all, it's been a while since I posted on CAG. I have been busy, my son is nearlly two now and I have been busy with my own business. Life has had it's ups and downs as all ours have.

 

I have just finished writing this article Why Have We Bailed Out Banks?

 

I have linked to cag, hope this is allowed and not classed as spamming. I would never do that. I detest spam. There is a link to my company website which I can remove it's not an issue.

 

The article text is here but it might be a bit too strong for cag, but it is how strongly I feel about what is actually happening at the moment.

 

As I sit and type this I am filled with an overwhelming feeling of dread. I don’t know why exactly, it is just there, gut feeling kind of thing.

 

 

I am a realist and I know the people, country and world need banks. But do we need private central banks that control countries interest rates and charge a country for the privilege? Or do we need government banks where the country as a whole decides on who controls money and interest rates?

 

 

The current system of banking and general work ethic is based upon the “how much money can we make attitude”. What if there were other ways to make money. We could try drug running (high risk but profitable), set up a prostitution ring (high risk but profitable), cut and shut car garages (high risk but profitable), we could do all three and make a killing. But we might go to jail. Or we could become banks, rape peoples finances and hold nations to ransom, little risk as who wants to confront a nation?

 

 

As you will probably know the UK banks have been “making a killing” for too many years to remember. They have been illegally making bank charges for unauthorised overdrafts, declined direct debits, late standing orders, unpaid cheques. Under UK law it is illegal to extort any “penalty charges” against a company or private individual as it is a penalty. A cost for administering any charges applied to an account can be taken, however NO PROFIT can be made from the charge.

 

 

Yet for years the UK banks have applied these charges, £30 for being overdrawn, £15 for sending you a letter to let you know you were overdrawn, total of £45 for being overdrawn, when you actually were not as the bank did not PAY the company or person who tried to take money from your account. The following month they take £45 from your account without you agreeing, but HEY HOUSTON WE HAVE A ****ING PROBLEM, there is no money in your account, so they again try to take it, which then increases this illegal debt another £30 for being overdrawn, £15 for sending you a letter to let you know you were overdrawn. So you now owe £90 to the bank for nothing, they have not lost a penny as they have not paid the original request for money. They instead used this error that YOU made to generate money out of thin air. You had no money, so they created money for you, it shows on your bank statement, debits, so for your initial debit of say £1.00 and you had an available cash of £0.97 then for the sake of three pence it has cost you £45, how can this make sense? Then the next month this charge of £45 again cannot be taken as you don’t have enough money, so £45 becomes £90. Do you see where I am going with this? This goes on into infinity. You will never get out of this debt unless you have enough in your account to pay it off in full.

Allow me to explain this in plain terms.

 

 

I have my own leasing company, we issue invoices to customers. We expect payment on time. However if an invoice is not paid on time, we allow 5 days grace and then we call the customer. We ask why payment has not been made and when it will be paid. Normal and rational I think. What we do not do is operate like a bank, such as, you have not paid your invoice so we are charging you 300% non payment fee and a further admin charge of £15.00 because you made us make the call. If you do not pay us next month we will then charge a further 300% and another £15.00 because you once again made us have to auto generate a letter! DO YOU THINK I WOULD DO MUCH BUSINESS IF I TREATED CUSTOMERS LIKE THIS?

 

 

So here is me, the wee guy on the street, struggling to make ends meet and working my arse off. I find the bank is now taking my wages in charges, the amount I owe them isn’t coming down even though they take all I earn, but they keep putting charges on as my debt (created by them, deliberately) is always increasing, my wage of £900 a month is now taken

 

 

 

 

I have nothing to live on.

 

 

Do they care? No all they care about is profit.

 

 

Do they understand? Do they want to? No they only care about profit.

 

 

Do they offer any help? Do they want to? No as this will break their circle of creating a debt out of thin air.

 

 

Does the law offer help? Yes, it fully supports banking institutions taking monies and property. Illegally! My words and not the policy nor words of CAG. So litigate against me too!

 

 

 

Do the banks offer any kind of help?

Yes they do, they say take out a loan, and this will clear the outstanding charges. This means, MORE DEBT.

 

 

 

The situation in the UK is laughable if it was not so serious. The OFT case allows banks a stay on the claims being made against them in the county courts, yet the banks are allowed to continue to apply these illegal charges to customer’s accounts. I use the term illegal, my choice and my view, so shoot me if am not a lawyer, in fact shoot me if I am one.

 

 

Cracking solution I think! A debt created out of thin air can now be financed via a loan from the bank, how ****ing gracious of them, they create the debt and offer the solution, they will then charge interest on the debt they created. MORE DEBT!

 

 

Now the banks have their own situation. They are in a mess, perhaps they should have considered that loaning out more than they were worth might, just might have caused problems.

 

 

 

If I have 20 quid and my pal asks to borrow a tenner and I loan him it then I still have a net worth of a tenner. If my pal asks to borrow £100 and I have the same £20 but I say ok mucker I’ll loan u the £100, but £80 is an IOU and I am good for it.

 

 

 

I have then loaned out 80% more than I actually have. But I have told my pal, for the £100 you will pay me back £120. I have then made money, that’s if the IOU is not presented to me and I have to find an extra £80 to pay it. If it is presented to me then I will borrow money from Fred to pay it, but Fred will charge me interest on the £80 I don’t have. This is how banks work.

 

 

 

But what happens when the bank called “Fred” says I am not lending you money. Fred will be borrowing the money from other banks “Joe” Sam” and “Stu”. Neither of the banks have the money to lend, so what happens is this. There is a “run” on my bank and I cannot pay the amount of depositors the amount they have in their accounts (Northern Rock) and nobody will loan me to pay the depositors. Knock on is my bank has no money; surely my bank should be insolvent? Then other banks start to get the same thing, people want to take their money out, but the money isn’t there. Run after run and banks should be made bankrupt. Bank charges, why should we pay?

 

 

 

BUT, they have an ace up their sleeves. The central banks, Federal Reserve, Bank Of England (remember privately owned) are approached by smaller banks for bail outs, the central banks oblige, but because there are so many banks in trouble the central banks appeal to governments for help. Governments give the help under pressure as without agreeing economies would collapse. The main problem with this is it incurs more national debt, we the taxpayers pay for the bailouts, and then the banks charge us interest on our accounts. They also default us and charge us for unauthorized overdrafts etc etc.

 

 

 

So now that the bailouts have been given, we are now, as a people:

 

 

 

 

• Running banks or have joint ventures with them, 44% nationalized and %56% private, so who has the power? THE BANKS OF COURSE.
  
• Charging individuals interest on loans.
  
• Making illegal charges on accounts.
  
• Putting people into poverty and debt.
  
• Facing increased taxation to pay for the bailouts.
  

It amounts to one thing,

 

 

 

 

THEY WANT OUR MONEY AT WHATEVER COST.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They do not care and yet our politicians bail them out. It is a waste of time for me to suggest that you write to your MP, they will do nothing apart from pay lip service. It is a waste of time to take the banks to court, they are protected. It is a waste of time to plead with them not to take your home. It is a waste of time to ask them to reduce taxation (taxes are what pay the national debt, owed to banks).

 

 

 

So what can be done?

 

 

 

Answers on a postcard please.

 

 

 

I have my own ideas but I will not publish them here.

 

 

 

Peter

 

If I have annoyed you, offended you then you must be a banker. If I have made you think or upset you then you must be a normal person on the street, just like me.

Edited November 24, 2008 by jonni2bad
Nothing more than link removal...

[phatram]

Excellent.

[JGJ]

calvi36,

Every sentence, paragraph and word has come from your heart. There are thousands of us out here with the same problems seeking a solution, I do not think I will be holding my breath waiting for help or assisstance from our government/representatives, as they seem to have their priorities set a lot higher than the normal persons on the street like us. Our turn will hopefully arrive in the near future!! My heart and my hand extend out to you calvi36.

"EXEMPLO DUCEMUS"

[bish]

Well the moral of this story is ?. Who can you trust?. I see the government make a 2.5% cut in VAT to help us spend our money. I think that, according to the torries, equates to 12 billion pounds lost revinue to the government. How much did they give the banks?. As I have said let the financial institutions go to the wall and write off the debt, protect the investors, but write off the debt, that will give so much more money into the market, but not protect the very people that caused this collapse in the first place. This is a prime example of who actualy runs this country, the banks and the financial hedge funds, the politicians and their parties are in the pockets of such people who created this crissis. Why is this site being sued for libel? What was said?. This site has helped so many people get justice, yet it is being sued for libel, what a joke. The point of being a free society and a democracy is to allow such sites, we need a say, or else we have no demcracy.

[StinkyFeet]

Whole heartingly agree with every word you said.

The fact that the goverment has given banks millions of pounds of tax payers money, tax that me, you and everybody else has contributed over the years without any sort of 'public choice' is a complete joke.

The way I look at it, the banks make a balls up by being greedy and not being helpful, even though there loans, mortgages and credit cards say 'if you encounter problems please talk to us immediately, we are here to help', Yea course you are, with your £30 charges and constant kicks in the teeth.

So the goverment bail these out with our tax contributions, the same banks then keep coming to the door constantly kicking normal people until they end up Insolvent / Bankrupt. And when all is settled will continue to be honest tax payer who will be shafted again to replace these funds paid out now with Vat going back up, duty on everything and higher tax, whether directly or stealth.

Joe public is left to fail, if we make a bad investment, tough, Bankruptcy court down the road and the system will take you for everything they can. Banks should have been left the same, bad investment, bad luck, time for the OR to take there 5 million pound houses, there Bentleys and horses.

Feel better now lol

[brown1950]

Whole heartingly agree with every word you said.

The fact that the goverment has given banks millions of pounds of tax payers money, tax that me, you and everybody else has contributed over the years without any sort of 'public choice' is a complete joke.

The way I look at it, the banks make a balls up by being greedy and not being helpful, even though there loans, mortgages and credit cards say 'if you encounter problems please talk to us immediately, we are here to help', Yea course you are, with your £30 charges and constant kicks in the teeth.

So the goverment bail these out with our tax contributions, the same banks then keep coming to the door constantly kicking normal people until they end up Insolvent / Bankrupt. And when all is settled will continue to be honest tax payer who will be shafted again to replace these funds paid out now with Vat going back up, duty on everything and higher tax, whether directly or stealth.

Joe public is left to fail, if we make a bad investment, tough, Bankruptcy court down the road and the system will take you for everything they can. Banks should have been left the same, bad investment, bad luck, time for the OR to take there 5 million pound houses, there Bentleys and horses.

Feel better now lol

 

Yes i agree with the majority of your comments but what would be the alternative if we did not bail out the UK banks with public money ? Melt down ?

[bish]

Yes melt down of the financial markets, and banks going under as in the great crash of 1929. Watch the BBC program on this, so many parallels it is remarkable. My personal belief is that the money spent on bailing out the banks would have been better spent wiping out debt, protecting deposits, and nationalising the bad banks. As with the 1929 crash, thousands of banks went to the wall, what compounded the great depression of the thirties was the lack of intervension of the governments of the time. However, banks survived and the world eventualy recovered after WWII. This time government have stepped in, but wrongly to protect the very people who caused this crash in the first place, they may live to regret this action. The French are already protesting over this in the streets of France, this maybe a taste of things to come in many countries across the world. Already many people are loosing their jobs, and soon their homes to the very banks that have been bailed out by the very people that are loosing their homes. This is a total calamity. This government needs to throw a lifeline to the people who are the victims of both this governments lack of regulation, and the greedy banks who have been bailed out by the British Tax Payer.

 

Why is it in, what the politicians call, exceptional circumstances, if you fall behind with your mortgage three months, automaticaly repossession is started. Why not give every one in difficulty, espesialy if they have lost their job or work, due to the current climate, two years grace. Bung it on the end of the mortgage, or the finance agreement. What is the point of making people jobless and homeless if the tax payer has to pick up that tab as well. The banks and finance companies are getting away with daylight robbery, it is about time GB and the rest of the useles so called leaders of this country and the world actualy did something of use to the very people who vote them in and pay their wages and supply the money to bail out defunct businesses.

[cadencealex]

Nicely thought out post.

 

I tried to rep you, but it wouldn't let me It said I can't give rep for this post.

[tumble]

Fantastic post and sums up every thought ive had to do with this mess.

[Kinc]

You are very correct, they had a monopoly and got greedy with us and with the markets.

 

Problem is in the past if they didn't act this way they wouldn't be around today, they would of been bought out, with the finance coming from the likes of RBS etc

 

The excuse for charges is thin as a piece of rice paper, and the banks know it. A refund would act as a perfect moral and financial stimulus to the economy, and would probably cost 2 billion max to those that claim. You can compare that to G Bush's 160 billion tax giveaway last year.

 

lloyds tried to make me pay back a loan which was under what I was claiming in charges, they still hassle me to this day, and I say, take me to court then you ***ker's. Do they no, but they still hassle me all the time. Nice

 

Charges nearly brought me down, even though I'm quite well off ish. All behind now but feel for everyone who encounters it. They don't talk about the spiral effect in court do they, which is a shame.

 

The poorest get hit the worst and that is so wrong it is un-believable.

 

I'll be updating my MP!!!

[calvi36]

Thanks to everyone who posted here. there is a solution and it is quite simple.

 

Remove the privately owned central banks, Fed reserve and bank Of England. Then have one government owned central bank that prints it's own money instead of paying a private bank interest on the money it prints and then loans to the Government.

 

Remove the private banks and setup credit union style small banks run by local people to help local people.