Can I delay the repo to sell it myself

[chris600uk]

Thanks Bona, that case number may help a lot

[jansus]

The thing is this, they have already had the sale documents, the property has been on the market for two years, they insisted on a valuation by a Chartered Surveyor who valued it at £75k less than the mortgage (not including arrears), whereas the auctioneer suggested a guide price of £50k less than the mortgage.

 

House prices are only going to go one way during the next 12 months - down - and that could be by as much as another 25 - 30%.

 

You can see why we thought the auction was a good idea.

 

 

I agree as Bona has said you can have a reserve anyway so you have some control.

 

There was a recnt TV programme about possessions and one guy had a reasonable offer on the house and the mortgage comapny refused it ( all verbal) And I thought at the time - glad you have that on film as I bet later they sold it for less than the offer as the house was about to become unoccupied which immediately flags up problems.

I would have refused to pay the difference owing.

 

 

Hope you have some progress soon

[Bona]

I think you need to get iot sold at auction with a reswerve see what interest and then make an application to the court at the same time have just poped back have to go back to school will be in later and will give you details of case etc.

[chris600uk]

Just had a phone call warning us that an eviction notice will be sent out shortly.

[Bona]

any nearer down the road of selling

[chris600uk]

Nowhere - the only chance was the auction who valued it at between £250-270k because that way we didn't have to mention the chartered survey we had done - which valued the house at £225k

 

At that price it'd probably go in a heartbeat - at its peak it was valued at £400k.

 

We are meeting with the CAB who haven't heard of anyone using s91 L of P Act up here in Liverpool - their resources are limited but they've said they'll give it a go if I can show them it's been done before and there is a legal justification for it in our case.

[Bona]

i suggest whe they apply for repossession you apply under the L&p Act i will give you my case and the appeal court Judge who suggested it

I have a lot on at the moment so if i do not answe your thread please PM me as I might miss it

[chris600uk]

s91.pdf

 

This is the only other info I have got

[chris600uk]

Bona if there is any more info you can give me about filling in the application it would help a lot.

 

We are speaking to the CAB today, and will be asking for their support in making the application.

 

They've made two comments so far:

 

We are already under a suspended repossession order, and any further action by the court would most likely be to enforce that order.

 

The shortfall created by a sale by auction may be too great for the court to allow you to sell the property – “ Where the sale proceeds would fall substantially below the amount of the mortgage debt, an order for sale will not be made except in exceptional circumstances”

 

So as you can see, we've a major hurdle to overcome - we would have to convince a judge that another judge has made a favourable decision in a case similar to ours.

[chris600uk]

Eviction notice today - they've given us till the 17th to get out.

[jansus]

Really sorry to hear that. Is there no way you are entitled to help with the mortgage interest? I keep hearing rumblings about new government help but not sure if anything has been finalised.

 

Do you need anymore help or are you resigned to the eviction?

[chris600uk]

I'd like to apply under section 91 of the law of property act - but I need a precedent to persuade a local judge that it's appropriate in my case.

[Bona]

Did you hear radio 4 this morning Judges can now order all sorts of things

I will look up my file but may not be able to untill tomorrow

[chris600uk]

Did you hear radio 4 this morning Judges can now order all sorts of things

 

No I didn't, what time was it on?

[jansus]

The only comment I would make is that if you are going to try and put in a defence l I think you would have to be making a payment of some sorts. If you are unable to make payments at all then your arguments may be not be relevant.IMO

[chris600uk]

Thanks for all the input so far.

 

The latest advice we've had from the CAB's specialist support is as follows:

 

”Certain conditions must be satisfied in order for the court to suspend a warrant pending sale by the lender:

 

1. That possession would not be required by the lender prior to sale

2. That the presence of the borrrower pending sale would enhance, or at least not detract from, the sale price

3. That the borrowers would co-operate in the sale

4. That the borrowers would give possession to the purchasers on completion.

 

Your clients would therefore have to convince the court of all these things. However, note that the court also said that it found it hard to envisage a case where all these circs could apply - if they did, then logically the sale should be entrusted to the borrwers anyway.

 

We have no experience of this case being used but it seems to me that if you don't try it, the client will definitely be evicted on 17th March, whereas if you do, you have at least a chance of prolonging the inevitable”.

 

Anyone have any comments or info to add?

[Bona]

Chris

 

When we got the order under section 91 it was because we said we had equity and proved it the mortgage company said we hadnt and couldnt prove it, 2 the house was on the market, and we agreed to make the intrest payments which we did. if you dont have equity then you must pay the monthley payments if you do have enough equity for there to be a time lapse you may get away with it but you need to show the court that a sale is in progress like an auction and it is not just a delaying factor on your part have you thought about putting it in an auction with a reserve ( what you owe) if you get a offere then you can go back to the MC with it and see if they will accept it or make an emergency application to a master for permission to sell at the price ( case law to say you can sell for below the Mortgage)

[chris600uk]

Thanks for getting back to me Bona.

 

It's starting to look as if we have little choice but to let go of the house on the 17th.

 

What we owe is more than we could conceivably expect at an auction.

 

We contacted the MC about this back in Sept 08, and they've dragged their feet for months.

 

All the financial data that I have suggests a continuing drop in the housing market for at least the next 9 months, and historically in these type of economic events house values drop by around 35% on average, and the crisis lasts for 2 years.

 

So what I expect to happen is this:

 

The mortgage Company will take possession on the 17th, and then will put the house on the secret list initially, if none of their pet brokers/old schoolmates want it, and there are no offers from the estate agents marketing, then will put it up for auction about 9 months AFTER we wanted to do exactly that.

 

This is all down to just one individual in the organisation, everyone else we've spoken to can't understand why he's blocking us - unless he's got his own agenda.

[chris600uk]

Quick update:

 

I've decided to try and go to court to get control of the sale.

 

a) because I'd like to see if we can

 

b) because I'd like to try and get the lenders intransigence noted by the court.

 

At some point the court is going to make a money judgement, and I intend to challenge it on the basis that we could have sold quickly back in Sept 08 when prices were considerable higher.

 

Any comments welcome,

 

Chris

[vickson]

Hey Chris

 

How is it going?

 

Any updates on your case?

[chris600uk]

Sorry, it's not like me at all but I've tried not to think about it for a couple of days.

 

After Derek at the CAB exhausted every remaining legal nook and cranny and could only find ways to delay the eviction - I finally came to the conclusion that I'd gain no more control over the sale than I had already.

 

So I'm going to meet the bailiff at the house and hand him the keys.

 

There is no longer anything I can do effectively, except to monitor the progress of the sale and see how much it sells for.

 

To add insult to injury, 3 people want to view the house this week - where were they last year!

 

The last ditch legal argument was based upon the ruling (see here Cheltenham & Gloucester Plc v Booker & Anor [1996] EWCA Civ 957 (14th November, 1996) ) that said the borrower should be able to remain in the property until the lender sold it, provided the borrower cooperated with the sale and did everything they reasonably could to enhance the sale, and provided the lender didn't have any reasonable objection.

 

This had a 25 - 30% chance of success, long odds I agree, but if we'd had nowhere to go, better than nothing. And with courts, you can never tell...

[chris600uk]

Well that's it, the house was repossessed at lunchtime today. The locks have been changed.

 

I'm not sure what happens next, does anyone know how I keep tabs on the progress of the house sale, when and if it happens...

[chris600uk]

Well, we warned the mortgage company that once repossession notices went up in the windows, that the **** would be on it like flies on dog sh*t.

 

Last night we were not disappointed, one of the neighbours phoned me and said he'd seen two men and a girl climbing over the back fence. I asked him to phone the police and set off.

By the time I got there, the three intruders were trying to leave but the neighbours wouldn't let them leave until I arrived. I questioned each one, asked them their name's and what they were doing there.

 

 

They gave their names, and said that they were subcontractors for the bailiff company, and were only there, to check for squatters and to change the locks so that no one could get in.

 

Thing is, the bailiffs had already been on the eviction date and I had given them a key, they said they were changing the locks. Then the other day, another bailiff entered the house using a key presumably checking that everything was okay inside the house, a neighbour who thought I still lived there challenged him and was shown identification.

 

The three scruffians began to get aggressiv,e one of them shouting that he didn't have to provide identification, so I said "okay, just go to the door open it with the key and then lock it again, and then we can all go."

Just then the police arrived -- and the scruffian's told them that they worked for a bailiff company, were checking for squatters, and had disabled the lock so no one could get in using an original key. They showed the police officer what they said they had done, twirling the ward ring that is in every mortise lock and which I expect almost everyone would have to dial back at some time in their lives. Not a very reliable way to disable a lock is it...

 

The police chose to accept that explanation, although they later admitted that they didn't really believe it themselves.

 

So it's quite clear now that the house is being advertised in the ****** Gazette, you know the criminal grapevine.

 

There is not much point in me going down again, I know that the neighbours are unlikely to phone me again, or the police -- because right now they see the house as being owned by nobody -- and they're not going to put themselves out for a mortgage company who they regard as being somewhere between pondlife and the stuff that lives under stones.

 

I'm a little bit worried about what will happen when it comes to a money judgement.

I have seen just how quickly houses can deteriorate once the thieves and vandals get it on their radar.

It's a posh area, but still has a couple of derelict houses that are virtually unsaleable.

 

Has anyone got any suggestions about what I can do about this now, or when it comes to the final money judgement hearing?

Edited March 21, 2009 by chris600uk
proofreading

[chris600uk]

Oh dear, they really did work for the bailiffs.

 

Although that doesn't explain their strange behaviour, something still isn't right in my view.

[Markiemark1]

What bailiffs? The only bailiff that can take possession of property is a County Court Bailiff and I really can't see them working at stupid o'clock at night, and certainly not a group of them together....this sounds highly dodgy to me!