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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Debt collection hell, need advice & someone to talk to...


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I've just received a letter from Hillesden Securities Ltd (dlc), tellling me that my debt with Black Horse has been assigned to them, and that Black Horse no longer own my account. Black Horse put a charge on my property approx 2 yrs ago - the debt started at around £1600, at the time they took me to Court (after not once replying to any of my letters asking for reduced payments!) the debt had risen by £1,000 due to charges and interest. When it went to Court, their Solicitor told me the interest would cease at that point in time. I made an offer of £10 per month, which I have never defaulted on. My questions: Can these people now start adding interest to the debt, which according to them stands at £2,351.02, can they take me back to Court, does the legal charge on my house become null and void as it was in the name of Black Horse. I failed to say I am registered disabled, and on a state pension and DLA. I am just so upset by all this, I can't phone them, as I'm in such a state, I have scanned the letter, but don't know how to paste it on here. Somebody help me please!

 

Thank you

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Hi Perniktree,

 

I have moved your post to it's own thread. You will get more help here.

 

I have ask some one with more experience than me to have a look.

 

Lex

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Advice & opinions given by me are personal, are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group or the Bank Action Group. Should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hiya Perniketree

 

Welcome to CAG.

 

You will get the help needed here. Please don't panic too much. I have given you a link to help you find your way around the site, so you can show us the papers among other things.

 

HOW TO GUIDE....

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Have a good read around the debt forums, and if you have any questions, just ask. There will always be some one around to help you. :)

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Please don't call them. I will make sure some one pops into here to give you the advice needed. ;)

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Have had a quick read, if the court says that interest was to of stopped - then in my view only the court can add interest. Did you have a solicitor? If so go and see him if possible and ask for copies of statement to show what the outstanding amount is made up of.

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photobucketCannot do the photobucket thing, all I got was this red cross! I will type the letter word for word now:

Client: Hillesden Securities Ltd

Balance outstanding: £2,xxxxx

 

This debt has been assigned to Hillesden Securities Ltd trading as direct legal & collections (dlc)

 

This means that Black Horse Ltd no longer own your account and your account is now owned by dlc. All future payments and contact must be made with us.

 

Your account has previously been subject to legal action through Black Horse Ltd or their representatives.

 

You must contact us immediately on 0870 7446481 with your payment proposals to prevent further enforcement action being taken.

 

If you have a payment arrangement in place, please contact us to confirm these details.

 

Yours sincerely,Nathan Prior Team Leader. The letter was dated 6th October - I do not want to ring them, as I will get very upset and neither do I have the facilities to record the two way conversation.

Edited by 42man
edited amount for id of poster...
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Hiya,

 

It was for HP on a kitchen, I had hoped to pay it up before it went on to interest and monthly payments, but my business went down the pan, when I became disabled, so I kept writing to Black Horse asking for them to reduce the payments, they just kept ignoring my letters, I did not pay anything at all, so they took me to Court to put a charge on the house, the Judge was an absolute B......, would not listen when I told him my letters had been ignored, I offered £10 per month, which I have never defaulted on, more charges were put on the amount to cover their Court Solicitor costs, and she told me that the interest would be frozen from that date. My payments should be made on 14th of each month, but I always send them on 1st of month, when I send all my other 'token' payments of £1 to various CC Companies. Hope this gives a clearer picture. I think that Black Horse have treated me really bad since the outset.

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Hey Guys, just received another letter from dlc:

"you have failed to respond to our previous letter and the balance remains unpaid. Please telephone us immediately on ... to discuss your payment options which include: 1. A discounted lump sum in full and final settlement. 2. Monthly payments over an agreed term. Failure to respond to this letter may result in further legal or enforcement action and additional costs may be added to your balance. Yours etc etc

 

Shall I write and tell them that this is the first I have heard from them, as by way of a delaying tactic?

 

Thanks in anticipation guys.

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OK keep sending the £10 per month as agreed by the court.....in the meantime I would send a Subject Access Request to Lloyds so you can reclaim all the excessive charges + 8% compounded interest....

 

Unfortunately the SAR will cost £10 (send it by recorded) FAO - The Data Compliance Manager at their head office, they have to send this to you in 40 days...., by doing this you will have started the penalty charge reclaim process....

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

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Many thanks for that - do have a couple of problems though - I had a business loan with Lloyds (£25k), I have been making a token payment of £2 per month to Wescots. If I were to write to Lloyds as you suggest, will that not remind them of me, and then they may ask for more than the token payment? I'm so afraid of that. Black Horse, is part of the Lloyds Group I know, but don't understand why they sold off my debt to DLC? It also seems that since Lloyds took over HBOS, I am getting nasty things happening - BOS CC - I have not received a CC statement from them in over two years, as have again, been making a token payment of £1 per month, via their Solicitors, Eversheds, all of a sudden, I have just received a statement direct from BOS, showing the total outstanding (in excess of £2k) seems like a lot of interest gone on there, and I thought it was frozen, when token payments were being made? - Sorry, I'm a real dummy about all this, I'm afraid, of all the consequences. I'm registered disabled, and only receive a state pension, pension credit help with the mortgage payments.

 

Looking for a miracle,

Regards & more thanks I hope

Margaret

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You could write this to DLC....

 

Dear sir / madam

 

I note your recent letter indicating that I have failed to make payments. As you know, this debt was the subject of a judgment which ordered me to make payments of £10 a month which I have never failed to pay. However as there are a substantial amount of excessive penalty charges that have been added to the account, I am currently in the process of reclaiming these. However as you own the debt it may be that I am owed more than I actually owe you.

 

I would welcome the opportunity of showing the order to a judge in the future along with the raft of excessive charges that have been added to the account, and when questioned on costs, I will have no hesitation in showing this letter along with the previous court order to the judge.

 

I am also contemplating getting the original judgment set aside.

 

yours sincerely

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For all credit loans / and credit card debts (NOT business cards or loans or overdrafts / bank accounts) I would also send a CCA request out....which you can read about here and why it is relevant...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/164270-debt-wescot-lowell-unsecured.html

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Hi 42,

 

Many thanks for that brilliant letter, I am happy to send that, but the original letter from DLC does not refer to any missed payments, it was just informing me that they now own the loan - should I just omit the first sentence to them please?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

Having sent the letter (19 above). I have now received a reply:

 

Thank you for your correspondence of 19th October 2008, the contents of which have been noted.

 

We would be obliged if you would supply by return, details of the court of whom obtained the judgement in place.

 

Upon receipt, your account will be dealt with accordingly.

 

p p signature for a Debbie Bloxham, Team Leader.

 

What do I do next please? surely it's up to Black Horse to supply the info, as they sold the debt on? Shall I send the SAR to Lloyds as you suggested above? or shall I wait a bit.

 

Many thanks

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