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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.    
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Should garage pay my petrol costs?


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Dear All,

 

My local Nissan Dealership in Chorley recently acquired a Fiat Dealership in Blackpool - 30 miles away. I bought my Fiat car through them (it was brought to Chorley for me to view/puchase) in July 2008.

 

In August 2008 I discovered the spare key they had given me with the car doesn't actually work on my car. They are completely different when compared so it's quite obvious (if you check!) that it doesn't fit my car.

 

I rang them and told them that the car being incorrect had caused major problems one day when I had left the spare with my parents so they could borrow my car to visit some relatives, and I went out for the day (wth the original key).

 

The service desk weren't too bright and couldn't understand me, so I drove to the garage (2 minutes from my house) and showed them the key. They took it off me and said they'd get back to me, because they couldn't cut me a key in the Chorley branch. Chorley is Nissan, Blackpool has all the Fiat gear.

 

They called me a week later and told me they'd need to take the car up to Blackpool to code the new key to the car as they couldn't find the TRUE Spare which should have been given to me when I bought the car.

 

I took it in this morning to Chorley so they can take it up to Blackpool, and they have given me a courtesy car. I asked them if my petrol level will be the same when they return it to me and they said they don't normally do that.

 

I told them the problem has been caused by them so I shouldn't have to incur a petrol cost.

 

The service desk lady said she'd speak to her manager.

 

I am due to pick the car up at 5pm today. I have a feeling they won't have put any petrol in it. I noted the mileage, the miles left on the electronic petrol gauge, and the MPG,

 

Does anyone have any tips what I can say to them at the garage when I pick it up if it's not had petrol put in? Or should I just come home and write a letter of complaint?

 

Thanks in advance.

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In the Utopian world where everything is run by Trading Standards compliance officers (Now there's an oxymoron!!) I suppose some people would like to think they can recover petrol costs.

 

In the real world, i might offer you a discount voucher for your next service. If i had to re-emburse everyone their petrol costs, me and a lot of other traders just wouldn't be here. Which might sound like a good thing but then where would buy your cars from and where you you get them fixed?

 

Hammy

 

 

So what level of theft/fraud/con would you condone before admitting that it was wrong?

 

The vehicle was supplied by the Chorley dealer - franchised or not. That dealer is responsible for all the costs of rectifying the problem. That includes the costs of getting it to and from the Fiat dealership.

 

Equally though, the OP needs to return the courtesy car with the same level of fuel as supplied - it cuts both ways.

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That dealer is responsible for all the costs of rectifying the problem.

I agree,pat. I think that the crucial point is that the OP was offered a key at the point of purchase that was described as a "spare". Anything that is handed over at the point of sale would have been considered as included in the purchase price of the car. The key clearly isn't a spare, therefore is not as described and the onus is on the dealer to rectify the problem, at their cost. The dealer has shot himself in the foot. He should have just handed over the car with one key and saved himself aggro and expense.

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Update!

 

I picked my car up and asked if it had petrol replaced. The woman said 'We don't do that'.

I explained the situation, that it wasn't my fault the car had to go to Blackpool, it was their fault which caused the problems and asked if they had spoken to a manager.

The woman said no, but she had spoken to the Sales Man who sold me the car in the first place and he had said no. I asked her to speak to her manager, she said he was very busy. I asked for the address of where to complain, she said "Here". I asked her to write the address down, she gave me a business card. I will follow it up with a letter.

 

Am I right in my pursuit? It's not my fault that the Fiat gear is in Blackpool. They had done a 60 mile round trip and the petrol tank was seriously depleted.

 

Help!

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I've re-read my post and that of the original OP and i don't see any of us referring to theft/fraud/con........................

 

We have very difficult trading conditions at present and this culture of "blame" and "retribution" bandied around by the educated but not wise, is detrimental to honest business practise.

 

Hammy

 

I interpreted your post as admitting that there are legal problems with the standard of service you provide, but you get away with it because trading standards do not have the resources to prosecute you. If this is not want you meant perhaps you should clarify.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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In the Utopian world
which is what we don't have, that's why sites like cag exist.

 

the garage made a cock-up, so according to

 

honest business practise.
the garage should have put fuel in the car.

 

why should the customer pay for someone else's cock up? This is the sort of crappy customer service that gives the trade a bad name.

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she would be expected to bring the car back with the same amount of petrol in it... they should do the same.

 

lets look at this... really how much would it cost the garage to pop a few quids worth of petrol in the car? 60 miles... what's that... one or two gallons at the most?

 

If they had done so, this user would now be telling her pals that although the garage made a mistake (which we all do from time to time) they put it all right, they even filled the tank up.

 

Instead she is here complying about shoddy service... and I for one agree with her.

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if a garage were to put a couple of gallons of fuel in every vehicle they had to drive for fault finding etc the costs would be prohibitive, the OP was given a courtesy car even though the vehicle was not undrivable-for the garage to correct the problem. i say that the garage went out of its way to help. They could have just said "you should have checked the keys when you bought the car."

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they had to drive for fault finding etc the costs would be prohibitive,
indeed.

 

but this is not fault finding.

the garage cocked up with they keys... fair and square there is no argument about that.

 

They could have just said "you should have checked the keys when you bought the car."

 

or in Currys they could say "you should have checked the telly first". The car was sold with the keys... and lets be honest it costs a small fortune these days to get a car key cut and programmed.

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Zamzara

 

For the record, there are no issues, legal or otherwise, with the standard of service offered by any company I am connected with and frankly, I take great offence at this suggestion and I respectfully ask that you retract it.

 

How creative your mind must be to reach this interpretation from just 4 lines of text......................

 

Clearly you are one of the educated. However wisdom, in whatever form, has yet to appear.

 

Trading Standards, or whatever they call themselves this week, do not have a resource problem in my area, they have an intellect problem............a lack of it.

 

Plus the fact they need something to investigate and as far as I can tell that has never happened with any business I have connections with.

 

Thank you for the clarification. It was you who made the distinction between your business practice, and one that is acceptable to trading standards officers, so I fail to see where my line of reasoning was wrong.

 

My personal circumstances are irrelevant.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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The way I see it is make an official complaint to the MD of the garage (give them the chance to resolve the complaint)....and see what the response is, if it isn't you your satisfaction, then report them to TS, and if they can't resolve it to your satisfaction then I suppose you could always take them to court....

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