Car serviced by Audi last week now I have a suspected Head gasket failure! PLEASE HELP

[S.O.L]

Hi there, just reading your posts, firstly just a quick explanation what the headgasket does, in the top of the engine there are various holes which carry water and oil, these have to be kept apart from the high pressure from the cylinders when the engine fires, so a large seal with holes is placed between the top and middle of the engine, as your car has just done 16k it unlikely to have failed with age, nor does it fail with running low on coolant, it fails due to overheating or badly built engine which the head (top of the engine ) is slightly warped or has not been tightened down correctly. This has nothing to do with Audi servicing the car as it cannot be checked in a service, the only time they might be responsable is, if it overheated with them on a test drive, secondly the process replacing it is easy and nothing like the 5k you were quoted, the process is, removal of the cylinder head, strip the cylinder head down enough to get it re-skimmed, ( re-surfaced so the base is flat ) re assembled with new headgasket, This can be done by any reputable garage not neccesarly a audi dealer as their labour charges can be much higher, estemate £500 tops, ask around for quotes, remember to include oil and coolant. Regards.

 

£500 for a V6 Engine? What about the Catalytic converter etc?

 

So as far as you're concerned, there is no way Audi could have been responsible other than through an overzealous test drive?

 

Would the check they perform for leaks not have flagged up a problem?

 

thx

[riget]

sol- just found the a4's up to 2004 had a coolant blower fan module fault, this caused overheating, the dealer should be able to read the fault if it has occered.

[S.O.L]

sol- just found the a4's up to 2004 had a coolant blower fan module fault, this caused overheating, the dealer should be able to read the fault if it has occered.

 

thx Riget.......the thing is no warning lights have come on since it was serviced and the coolant temp has gradually rose to 90 and stayed there both times I have driven it since the service. if the blower fan was the culprit then would it not have affected the coolant temp?

 

There was a full diagnostic check as part of the service......would this not have been picked up by diagnostics?

[riget]

Did the temp go to 90 before the service?

It's not likely to be able to diagnose the error by this forum, but for me the error happened at the service, as you have now said the coolant was changed that seems the likely cause.

The diagnostics check should find if there was an electrical failure, as no error was found at the service, then it's unlikely to be the reason for failure of the gasket.

[S.O.L]

Did the temp go to 90 before the service?

It's not likely to be able to diagnose the error by this forum, but for me the error happened at the service, as you have now said the coolant was changed that seems the likely cause.

The diagnostics check should find if there was an electrical failure, as no error was found at the service, then it's unlikely to be the reason for failure of the gasket.

 

Yes. No temp issues before the service....in fact the car ran totally fine. When I picked it up after the service, it felt no different.

 

I really don't think I can discount the fact that the coolant change by Audi mechanic could have caused this.......

 

Another thing that was odd was how much pressure there was in the cooler tank when I opened it to top it up.....I had to do it gently as it felt like the cap was going to fly off!

[riget]

I'm not a legal person but I think you should ask audi questions, the fact it's only 4 years old, low mileage with service history, and it happened just after the service.

But I can't check it over the net so you'll have to let them look, it is possible something else happened.

[S.O.L]

I'm not a legal person but I think you should ask audi questions, the fact it's only 4 years old, low mileage with service history, and it happened just after the service.

But I can't check it over the net so you'll have to let them look, it is possible something else happened.

 

thx for all your help!

[gwc1000]

There is a remote possibility when performing a coolant change, if done incorrectly, that head gasket failure can occur. Antifreeze has a creeping action and can find a path where plain water cannot. It is essential when replacing coolant into an empty system that neat antifreeze is not added at the start. Due to it's aggressive nature it is possible (albeit rare) that it may creep between the head gasket and block. The correct way is to use plain water first which must be added up to about a quarter of the coolant capacity. Next a mixture of water and antifreeze should be used to fill the system up. This way the effect of the antifreeze is at all times diluted.

[jungle vip]

The head gasket most certainly can go by running low on coolant.

£500 tops, is a bit light, we don't even know what engine this has, could be a v6, and I can't see anybody rebuilding the top end for £500.

 

S.O.L. what engine is it?

 

Have never had a headgasket go yet on a car that has been low on coolant ! I have seen plenty overheat due to being low on coolant, which in return causes headgasket failure ! secondly, the top end shouldnt need rebuilding, just the parts re-fitting that was removed to enable it to be skimmed, Have done loads of v6 engines, head off,re-skimmed and back on within the day...

[MrShed]

Have never had a headgasket go yet on a car that has been low on coolant ! I have seen plenty overheat due to being low on coolant, which in return causes headgasket failure !

 

Same difference to be fair.

[jungle vip]

Same difference to be fair.

 

I agree, but just because your coolant system needs topping up doesnt automaticly mean headgasket failure!

it usually works the opposite way round, the pressure from the headgasket failure blows the water out, agreed ?

[MrShed]

Usually - but didnt in my case, was failure in the coolant system(blown radiator) that caused the gasket to go. Therefore, can go either way

[Nemesis_Drake]

How could they cause the head gasket to fail? By his own admission the OP states "it was very low on coolant" ie not "empty" just very low, I fail to see any case for negligence or incorrect servicing.

 

The only reasons I can see is if the garage had changed the antifreeze and not "bled" the system correctly....which can cause localised overheating and head gasket failure, Or that the vehicle had never had antifreeze in it's system from new and electrolytic corrosion had "eaten" the all important sealing surface.......

 

£3000 seems a little harsh! Is that for a complete new engine?

[aj84]

I have an Audi A6 and although I am having problems after problems... any "engine" issues show up on board

For instance, if it was low on coolant to beyond the minimum amount needed, I would expect it to tell me.

I also have a "check" button which cycles (as it does in the background on starting the car) through the sensor checks and I'm almost 99% certain coolant is one of them.

Have you got something like this on the A4?

[riget]

I fail to see any case for negligence or incorrect servicing.

 

The only reasons I can see is if the garage had changed the antifreeze and not "bled" the system correctly....which can cause localised overheating and head gasket failure,

 

Think you answered youself there,

That is the best reason I could quess at.

[S.O.L]

I have an Audi A6 and although I am having problems after problems... any "engine" issues show up on board

For instance, if it was low on coolant to beyond the minimum amount needed, I would expect it to tell me.

I also have a "check" button which cycles (as it does in the background on starting the car) through the sensor checks and I'm almost 99% certain coolant is one of them.

Have you got something like this on the A4?

 

I too have the check button which I use frequently. Even when I press it now it tells me everything is ok.......whereas the cloud of white smoke coming out the exhaust suggests otherwise! Also I take those electronic checks with a pinch of salt as they rely on the fact that the electronics are working correctly.....if one of the sensors go....you wouldn't know until something went wrong unless of course you check things manually too.

Edited October 5, 2008 by S.O.L

[S.O.L]

How could they cause the head gasket to fail? By his own admission the OP states "it was very low on coolant" ie not "empty" just very low, I fail to see any case for negligence or incorrect servicing.

 

The only reasons I can see is if the garage had changed the antifreeze and not "bled" the system correctly....which can cause localised overheating and head gasket failure, Or that the vehicle had never had antifreeze in it's system from new and electrolytic corrosion had "eaten" the all important sealing surface.......

 

£3000 seems a little harsh! Is that for a complete new engine?

 

The facts are this: My car has very low mileage and ran fine (never overheated or low on coolant) prior to the service. 4 days after it was serviced by Audi, the coolant level is extremely low (well below min) and I have a blown head gasket therefore I can not rule out the fact that they may have been responsible for my current plight! However, I am not certain that they had anything to do with it either.

[S.O.L]

Think you answered youself there,

That is the best reason I could quess at.

 

that's my guess too as to what may have caused this although I am quite aware of the fact that I could be wrong.

[Nemesis_Drake]

One of the facts is that nothing is perfect and a head gasket "has" to fail sometime.....Personally I'd check the bill to see if I was charged for an antifreeze change (then I'd take them to small claims court if they had and find out if they know engines and their job) as obviously they hadn't purged the air out correctly .....You would maybe task an independent engineer to ascertain what went wrong.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Nemesis_Drake
Missed something out

[riget]

The coolant sensor is usually in the expansion tank, This would be full even if the engine was low (air lock) also it's likely to only have one temperature sensor, being a v6 if the air lock was in the bank with no temp sensor you would not have had an overheating warning, then after leaving it overnight the coolant in the expansion tank would have gone back into the engine.

Maybe?

[S.O.L]

The coolant sensor is usually in the expansion tank, This would be full even if the engine was low (air lock) also it's likely to only have one temperature sensor, being a v6 if the air lock was in the bank with no temp sensor you would not have had an overheating warning, then after leaving it overnight the coolant in the expansion tank would have gone back into the engine.

Maybe?

 

This is exactly what I am thinking

[blipvert]

>>06: Inspect cooling system for leaks and test antifreeze strength

 

This is key. Was it a visual check or a 'proper check'. By this I mean the system is pressurised. A pressure gauge with an integral hand pump is fitted (via an adapter) to teh expansion tank and pumped up to typically 12-15 psi.

If the reading drops after a few minutes then that indicates trouble. Also, how on earth would a visual check detect a leak (in say) the heater matrix which is usually buried under the dashboard. If I had an 'exotic' car I'd use FORLIFE, this is usually red but changes yellow at the first hint of gasket failure (combustion gases cause this). Also, was the system refilled, if so, was it bled correctly thus preventing air pockets (which would have normally been occupied with coolant).

 

My sister had a newish BWM once and was serviced at a main dealer, when she got it back, she asked me to investigate a rumbling back axle. Investigation showed they'd swapped the spare for the nearside rear but the nuts were only finger tight !. Her hubby phoned them and was fobbed off with a 'must've been vandals yarn'. They didn't even want to see the car to check if the soft alloy wheel was damaged at its mounting holes.

[Jonnie Reclaim]

Hi, I wonder why the last owner sold this car. Failure of the head gasket at this mileage is unusual. If you contact the servicing Audi dealer (details in service record) they may be able to supply more detailed information on each service, or any reported faults. The service history should be carefully checked to corroborate mileage - the repairs to bearings that you quote is unusual. I would look for indications that this car had problems prior to sale. Failure of the head gasket is generally down to manufacturing defect (faulty seal/gasket) or overheating producing head warping. I would also contact Audi UK and ask if they have seen this problem on this type of engine before. If the leak on the gasket at time of service was minor, then it would be difficult to detect,prior to major failure.

 

Good luck,

 

Jonnie

[S.O.L]

Hi, I wonder why the last owner sold this car. Failure of the head gasket at this mileage is unusual. If you contact the servicing Audi dealer (details in service record) they may be able to supply more detailed information on each service, or any reported faults. The service history should be carefully checked to corroborate mileage - the repairs to bearings that you quote is unusual. I would look for indications that this car had problems prior to sale. Failure of the head gasket is generally down to manufacturing defect (faulty seal/gasket) or overheating producing head warping. I would also contact Audi UK and ask if they have seen this problem on this type of engine before. If the leak on the gasket at time of service was minor, then it would be difficult to detect,prior to major failure.

 

Good luck,

 

Jonnie

 

thx Jonnie.....

 

I too was suspicious so checked the history with the main dealer and seems to be fine....nothing came up to suggest otherwise. This problem is uncommon according to Audi, However, the wheel bearing issue is less uncommon.

[TaxedAndConfused]

Head gasket damage is basically caused by overheating. Specifically, is almost always caused by cooling system failure, or (sometimes) lack of oil.

 

I'm no expert at all but I have a question - I thought this (above) was not always the case, and that HGF could cause overheating as the coolant is boiled away by the leaking of the head gasket, i.e. HGF can cause overheating rather than the other way round ?