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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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HBOS and OH's card debt


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Thanks CB - as always very helpful:D

 

So to clarify, my plan of action is

 

-Complain to Information Commissioners Office about state of envelope containing S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

 

Yes, absolutely. Do you still have the envelope ?. If you can get a good photocopy of the damage enclose the copy and wait for the ICO to request the original envelope.

 

-Escalate complaint about CCA to FOS- is this to state non-compliance with the request, or inadequate/illegible/unenforceable information sent?

 

I think here it is a bit of a grey area. I would be more inclined to focus more on the issue that they cant proceed to court action without a compliant copy. Check out ReallyMadWoman's thread, Complaining to the Financial Ombudsman, I am sure she mentions something about that and also quotes the relevant legislation. If you havent got the link, yell and I will find it for you.

 

-Write to BlairOS informing them formal complaint has been made to FOS - do I need to add anything about the timing of the NIP as the complaint was still open so nothing should have been done until it had been completed?

 

Again, you have to let them know that without a compliant copy of the agreement they will encounter problems with court proceedings I am sure there is a sufficiently sarcastic letter floating around, I will have a look for you. Yes, also advise as this is still an ongoing official complaint you are surprised they have taken this route. Also advise you are now making an ofifcial complaint to both the FOS and OFT.

 

 

-Get the letter out to bos and blairos as per bankfodders cracker:D - thanks for pointing me to that one CB!

 

Brilliant isnt it ?

 

Do I also respond to HBOS' final letter? I realise I won't get a response from it, but would it help my cause if there's a letter on file stating the points I've raised in my last post - especially regarding the status of the account and non compliant CCA?

 

This could be a "banging head against brick wall " excercise, but again, Yes. You could respond to their points with your own. Making it quite clear that they havent responded to your complaint to your satisfaction and what action you are now planning on taking.

 

Lastly, I'm guessing from your reply that the NIP isn't too dreadful. Do I do anything other than send the letter telling them the complaint has gone to the FOS, like telling them there's no point in court action without valid CCA, and any action will be considered vexatious etc?

 

Will come back to this one in a minute. I am looking to find my NIP to see exactly what the content is

 

 

 

Sorry for all the questions! I haven't got to this stage with anyone else yet (although I think MBNA are going to be my next FOS letter unless they change pretty quickly), so I'm a bit unsure of myself:oops:

 

Nope, no worries. I have had to ask them as well. Best to be sure of your ground before wading in:)

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Can I just confirm on your Notice of Intended Court Action.. does it say something along the lines of:

 

Formal notice is hereby given that our client has instructed us to commence county court proceedings against you without delay.

 

Papers are now being prepared for commencement of action through your local court to seek a judgement against you.

 

??????????

 

Also have they given you any timescale for a response. ?

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Post 14 in the RMW's link will be particularly useful when making your compalint to the FOS. You might want to read it all though. There is a specific section in post 14 higlighted in red which deals with the lack of a compliant document without which they cant take further action.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/136654-complaining-financial-ombudsman-service.html#post1453433

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You are such a star CB:D

 

Yep, the NIP does say that (I've remembered to attach it to the post at the top of the page now if you want to have a look).

 

It was dated on the 23rd and needed a response by the 30th. It reached me on the 30th:rolleyes: That's the only reason I didn't go into meltdown when it arrived - I kind of figured if it was that important they'd have sent it on the day it was dated (do they think we don't know they don't do this??) and posted it 1st class! I'm really hoping I'm right!

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Fruit flies like a banana.

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Just had a look at that post, that'll be very helpful.

 

I've already read through the whole thread, but now that I actually need it I'll go through in more detail.

 

Oh, and I do still have the envelope, but obviously we had to open it so it's very ripped now! I did take pictures at the time though - do you think that'll do?

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Okey dokey.

 

I think RMW has in fact complained to FOS regarding the timescales of Blair Oliver Scott letters so that will be one point to note.

 

Yes, photographs will be ok initially. I am sure if they need to see it FOS will ask for it.

 

I am just going to walk the dog, I will then amend a letter I have and will copy it here for you.. about an hour OK ?

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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PLEASE NOTE THIS LETTER HAS BEEN TWEAKED BY X20 IN POST 58 - PLEASE USE THAT VERSION.

:)

 

 

Here you go Lexis, I am going to ask someone to pop in and just give this the once over for you.. so dont go sending it to Blair Oliver just yet

:)

 

 

WARNING:

THIS IS A REQUEST UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 23rd October, this was received on 30th October 2008.

 

You have indicated that

 

a) You are giving Formal Notice that your client has instructed you to commence court proceedings against me without delay and

 

b) Papers are now being prepared for commencement of action through my local court to seek a judgement against me.

 

I am sure that you are aware that I have requested from your client, under both the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Data Protection Act 1998 (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)), a copy of the agreement to which both you and your client allege I am a signatory. To date this has not been provided to me.

 

I am sure you are aware that under S77-79 of the CCA 1974, whilst a creditor is in default of a request they may not take enforcement action, i.e. they are not legally entitled to ask for payment. I therefore contend that your notice is intended to mislead me into believing that you attempting to exploit my lack of knowledge that

(a) you/they are entitled to take enforcement action through the Courts

(b) you/ they are entitled to demand payment

 

Given that this matter is now subject to a potential legal proceeding, you are obliged to provide, under the Civil Procedures Rules, information to ensure that all parties are on an equal footing and also to ensure the claim is dealt with expediently and fairly, avoiding an unnecessary burden to the court's resources.

 

Under the Pre-action Practice Directions - Protocols 4.6 (a) and (d) of the Civil Procedures Rules, I request that you supply copies of the following documents:

 

A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.

 

This information is required within fourteen days from the date of this letter. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to deny me the opportunity to review my position in relation to your claim of alleged breach of agreement and any possible counter-claim.

 

 

Please note that, as you have initiated this action, failure to respond to this letter will place this account in clear dispute and as such you may not:

demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

add any further interest or charges to the account.

pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

issue a default notice related to the account.

Should you ignore any of the above I reserve the right for legal action for redress, and will show the court this letter. I will also report your actions to any authority that I see fit.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – PROTOCOLS

Edited by citizenB
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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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wow, that's quite scary!

 

Do I take it that I should be taking it seriously then, or is this more as a 'knock it on the head' course of action?

 

Having not been here before I'm not sure what my aim is - am I trying to force their hand, and if so how likely is it to end up in court? Obviously if the application that they've sent is all they have they shouldn't stand a chance, but I'd rather avoid that happening if at all possible!

 

Okay, just read the first part of the link you posted and I see this is in order to try and get them to do the right thing without the need for court - am I in the right area?

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Fruit flies like a banana.

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Thank you lexis :)

 

I think it is a bit of a lottery really lexis. The document in your first post, isnt enforceable as it stands. If they had something different, I would have thought they would have sent it to you. What would be the point of wasting everyone's time in letters going back and forth unless it is some kind of job creation programme:confused:

 

OH has much the same sequence of events as you. He has received the Notice of Intended Court Action 3 times. At one point it got passed over to a company called APEX, who seemed rather keen to pass it back when they were advised of a dispute:D

 

I sent a similar letter to the one I have posted for you on the last of the 3 from BOS. That was in June, I have since received a letter from HBOS who have said they know they cant enforce legally, but will do so anyway!! I already had a complaint in with the FOS, heaven only knows when they will get around to that, especially as I keep adding to it:p I have sent bankfodder's letter and told Blair Oliver, I will not enter into any further correspondence until they either come up with the agreement or they proceed to court. It is a risk I know, as I dont want OH in court either.

 

One amusing thing came out of the letter, HBOS wrote to me and suggested that if I wanted the information requested then I should do it the correct way and send a CCA request with a £1.00 or a DAP (SAR) request and enclose £10.00. Umm, I already did.. which was why we had arrived at this point ??. Obviously BOS do pass these letters back to HBOS.

 

I sent a pm to x20 earlier on, I am hoping he can pop in and give that letter the once over for you and also to confirm if it is the right way to proceed.

 

Other than that, I really dont know what else to advise.

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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That's great CB. I'll do as you advise and wait to see if x20 has anything to add.

 

Just reading back over the last few posts, assuming the CPR request letter is the right thing to do, do I send the Bankfodder one to BlairOS too??

 

btw - how can they justify sending 3 of these to your other half?? Surely if they send one giving you a week to respond, it kind of makes a mockery of it to send them repeatedly!

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Sorry Lexis, I received email notification last night, but havent been able to get on this morning till now. :)

 

That's great CB. I'll do as you advise and wait to see if x20 has anything to add.

 

I would really prefer someone else does have a look first I would hate to put you on the wrong path.

 

Just reading back over the last few posts, assuming the CPR request letter is the right thing to do, do I send the Bankfodder one to BlairOS too??

 

I would definitely send Bankfodder's letter to the OFT. The idea is to whack these guys from every which way. After all, it is what they do to us. ;)

 

btw - how can they justify sending 3 of these to your other half?? Surely if they send one giving you a week to respond, it kind of makes a mockery of it to send them repeatedly!

 

Hah, I asked myself this question. They send one of their nasties out, I reply telling them.. ok, fine, go ahead sue me (not worried of course cos it is OH's account:-D. They return paperwork to HBOS .. few more rounds with HBOS. They then pass it back to BOS and round and round we go again !!!.

 

Another thought, you could just send the OFT letter and copy it to BOS saying.. in view of your client's reluctance to send me paperwork I have requested, I have now made an official complaint to the OFT. :D

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Excellent, I'll get onto doing that and see if anything else is added to your post in the meantime. If nothing is said by next week though, I think I'll go ahead and follow with your (very scary) letter - it does seem like a reasonable way to go as it at least might make them do something either way, rather than just this back and forthing!

 

Plus, as with you, it's not my account so why should I worry:D

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Excellent, I'll get onto doing that and see if anything else is added to your post in the meantime. If nothing is said by next week though, I think I'll go ahead and follow with your (very scary) letter - it does seem like a reasonable way to go as it at least might make them do something either way, rather than just this back and forthing!

 

Plus, as with you, it's not my account so why should I worry:D

 

I tamed the letter above down a bit. Mine was a bit more sarcastic:oops:

I think if you dont put them on notice, then you are just going to go round in circles all the time. I am going to take this approach with all of OH's creditors.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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hiya lexis and CB

 

im sorry you are having a bit of a bad situation with bos, and hbos, i m kind of reading the last posts and think im going to be here soon myself, so thank you both i may have to come back here and pinch that letter lol

 

anyway im really hoping its the way to go, for you lexis because im thinking lately all we seem to do is request and re request info and its costing us loads in postage and then back to square one again,

 

anyway good luck and hope you get to move this along in the right direction for you

 

going to have a bit of a wander and i will catch up laters ciao for now MAZ

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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I have had a look at CB's noble letter and have made a few tweaks for your consideration, as follows:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re :

 

THIS IS A REQUEST UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 23rd October, this was received on 30th October 2008.

 

You have indicated that

a) You are giving Formal Notice that your client has instructed you to commence court proceedings against me without delay and

b) Papers are now being prepared for commencement of action through my local court to seek a judgement against me.

 

I am sure that you are aware that I have long since requested from your client, under both the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) and the Data Protection Act 1998, a copy of the agreement to which both you and your client allege I am a signatory. To date this has not been provided to me and whilst I appreciate your client has endeavoured to persuade me that the provision of a copy of an application form is sufficient to discharge your client from further obligations under section 78 of the Act. Likewise I too have explained that the mere provision of a copy of an application form is not a legally permissable substitute for the provision of a true copy of the executed agreement as required under section 78 of the Act and as prescribed by Regulation 3 Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

I am sure you are also aware that under section 78(6) of the Act, whilst a creditor is in default of a request made under sub-section (1) they may not enforce the agreement.

 

Notwithstanding the foregoing and your client's persistent, unexplained and willful refusal to supply a copy of the executed agreement in accordance with its obligations (the permitted ommisions under Regulation 3(2) excepted), your client has made plain its intention to begin legal proceedings against me. In consequence this matter may now be treated as one which is subject to the control of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Take notice therefore that under CPR Practice Direction - Protocols paragraph 4.6(a) and (d), I request that you supply copies of the following documents:

 

[1] A true copy of the executed credit agreement incorporating prescribed notices, terms and conditions applicable at the time the agreement was executed and

[2] Any further or subsequent notices, terms and conditions relied upon.

 

Please note that my request under the Practice Direction is not a request for production within the confines of the Act and Regulations but rather, it is for a copy of the executed agreement, including signatures and all such other notices, terms and conditions as will be relied upon in the event that your client shall begin a claim.

 

A copy of the documents I have requested should be supplied to me within 14 days and you are urged not to begin proceedings for a period of not less than 14 days following the supply of those documents to me.

 

Should your client elect to ignore my request under the Practice Direction and commence proceedings, it is likely that I shall repeat my request for the provision of documents under CPR 31.14. In the event that your client should fail to comply with my CPR 31.14 request, I will not hesitate in making an application to the court for an order that further proceedings upon the claim be stayed pending provision of the requisite documents, in the course of which application I will of course refer to this and previous requests for the provision of copy documents.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the time stated.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

One further point - has a default notice ever been served?

 

x20

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Much appreciated x20. :)

 

Lexix and maz, you are safe to go now. :D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Good luck lexis let us have the update

 

thanks CB and to x20 too, what a brill letter, you see its really knowledge is power..

 

i salute you all that have given so much time and knowledge to us all

 

ciao keep happy MAZ

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Thanks very much for that x20, I'll be sending it out tomorrow.

 

I don't think a default notice has been served on this account - I'd have to check with OH, but I'm sure he said he hasn't had any (yet). Does that matter then?

 

Thanks again

 

lexis:)

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Hi

 

I've just printed out the CPR request letter, but I have a couple of questions.

 

First, I've realised the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) wasn't actually requested from them - when I told them the application wasn't any good for the second time, they sent the same one a third time along with a load of statements and current t's and c's (freshly printed). I got confused as I've got SAR's going left right and centre at the moment! Anyway, I've just removed the 'and the Data Protection Act 1998' bit from the first main para. Is that OK, or should I have also requested the agreement under an SAR?

 

Secondly, as I'd obviously rather avoid court for OH (although I do fully accept this is a possibility), where it states 'In the event that your client should fail to comply with my CPR 31.14 request, I will not hesitate in making an application to the court for an order that further proceedings...', could I amend it to something like 'In the event that your client should fail to comply with my CPR 31.14 request, but still continues court proceedings, I will not hesitate in making an application to the court for an order that further proceedings...'

 

Whilst that gets a look over (hopefully!), I'm getting on with the absolute mountain of letters I need to write! Then I need to find out about claiming back all the bl***y postage costs I'm having to fork out:mad:

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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:)X20 beat me to it.:)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I do have one other query...

 

I've checked statements going back to '98, and charges with contractual compound interest all but wipes out the balance. I'm wondering if there's anywhere I can go with this?

 

-Can you claim back further than the 6 years - ie to the first charge in '98?

-Could I use this as leverage with them?

-If, as the agreement is not enforceable, I eventually manage one way or another to get the balance reduced to £0, could I then claim back the charges, or is it a one or the other type situation?

 

Thanks again

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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I do have one other query...

 

I've checked statements going back to '98, and charges with contractual compound interest all but wipes out the balance. I'm wondering if there's anywhere I can go with this?

 

-Can you claim back further than the 6 years - ie to the first charge in '98?

-Could I use this as leverage with them?

-If, as the agreement is not enforceable, I eventually manage one way or another to get the balance reduced to £0, could I then claim back the charges, or is it a one or the other type situation?

 

Thanks again

 

Hiya lexis, I have replied :)

 

I think there have been people who have managed to get charges beyond 6 years.

 

I guess you could try, see what happens. Complete your spreadsheet for the full amount and see where it takes you. This will also make them aware that you are disputing the balance !

 

This would be a good counterclaim should they decide to go down the court route as you could make a counterclaim in that the balance requested is made up of charges :)

 

I see x20 has advised that some of this would be subject to limitation so just make out your spreadsheet for 6 years and see how much that comes to.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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