Alternative to Clamping. A landowners view

[My Real Name]

- -

Edited September 17, 2008 by My Real Name

[Genepool1]

I'm picturing a "Clamper's Convention" in a caff somewhere in the midlands with free wifi and 20 shaven headed thugs typing away.

[Bookworm]

Now you are really showing that you know nothing about running a business.

I never pretended otherwise, dear.

The only thing the barrier can be offset against is TAX

 

It still needs to be paid for and the money has to come from somewhere. Just because he's running a business doesn't mean he's got an infinite amount of money to "offset" it against.

Fair enough. Then surely what you need to do is find the cost of that method and work out how that would compare in terms of actual business loss/gains? The same way you would do for any spending on the business? You don't need a business degree to think on that one, just good ol' common sense, btw. ;-)

 

You know, you can try to justify using illegal clampers and fake parking tickets all you like, it's not going to make the reality go away, so maybe you should try to factor in the cost of being made jointly liable for breaking the law into your expenses and compare that to maybe using a legal alternative.

[My Real Name]

-u-

Edited September 17, 2008 by My Real Name

[Jaffa_Cake77]

You know, you can try to justify using illegal clampers and fake parking tickets all you like, it's not going to make the reality go away, so maybe you should try to factor in the cost of being made jointly liable for breaking the law into your expenses and compare that to maybe using a legal alternative.

 

I never advocated the use of illegal clampers, however I would on a cost basis recommend using legitimate clampers instead of a barrier.

[My Real Name]

-o-

Edited September 17, 2008 by My Real Name

[Advocaat]

I'm not making effort to appear as anything.

 

I'm confused as to why my not being a lawyer precludes me from expressing even quasi-legal opinion, yet your not being a lawyer allows you to do the same.

 

I'm sure that you are correct though - owning a club is not an offer to treat.

 

However, having a club, playing music, providing a bar, having flashing lights and leaving the door open is an offer to treat. It's saying "Come here, I'm a club, have some fun".

 

Much as a car park says "I'm for parking cars, look at my marked bays, come park here".

 

In the same way that every door has a handle and so must be there to open?

 

Wrong, next?

[Bookworm]

I never advocated the use of illegal clampers, however I would on a cost basis recommend using legitimate clampers instead of a barrier.

 

All of them failing to see the point that was made from the start: You can operate a clamping operation as long as you comply with the law and the rules within your industry, how is that difficult to understand?

 

Operate lawfully and your "inconsiderate buggers" won't have a leg to stand on to get their money back. Operate unlawfully, cut corners and entrap and you'll lose out. Surely it's not that difficult a concept to comprehend, even for knuckles draggers?

 

Hmmm...

[Jaffa_Cake77]

In the same way that every door has a handle and so must be there to open?

 

Wrong, next?

 

What you should have said is

Every car park has an entrance and so must be there for parking

[My Real Name]

-y-

Edited September 17, 2008 by My Real Name

[anthonyenglish]

Y

 

The point is that you are drawing on your own experience, and extrapolating to reach a conclusion, which then becomes you assumption. Whereas the only accurate assumption that you can make is that if _you_ were to park without permission, _you_ would be doing so because _you_ were being lazy.

 

I wouldn't dare to criticise you for your views on parking, but I will pull you up on drawing unjustified conclusions about others parking habits.

 

 

I would argue that in most cases when people get clamped that there is some free and legal parking a short walk away which wouldn't have got them a clamp. You only have to look at the pictures posted for the thread which started this thread. Specifically look at the picture marked 'This is it from the opposite wall, you can see how high up it is.'

 

You can clearly see that there is a parking space on the main road. So here is another assumption! The guy went to subway, all the on street parking was taken and so he chanced it on some private car park - afterall it was outside thier opening hours and no clampers were in sight and it was only going to be for a couple of minutes.

 

If it had been me, I would have driven around the corner and left it on a side street and walked back to Subway - but that takes effort.

[jonni2bad]

The OP has requested opinion on his options. If other users wish to bicker and score points with each other, your posts will be moderated and this thread closed.

 

Users are reminded that if you have a different point that you wish to raise, start your own thread.

[electron99]

If your drive is blocked by someone parked on the public highway, then that is illegal and the Police can ticket/remove the vehicle.

 

There is your remedy. In your scenario, clamping is very definitely not the answer as this would only extend the period of obstruction.

 

Meanwhile back in the real world, when the police arrive,if indeed they bother to do so, the car has long gone, and I am late for work.

 

Some of the replies on this forum remind me of members of our Government.Very quick to offer solutions to problems that they personally will never experience; and thus will never suffer the inconvenience of their unworkable ideas.

[patdavies]

Meanwhile back in the real world, when the police arrive,if indeed they bother to do so, the car has long gone, and I am late for work.

 

If it is a continual/common occurrence, then your local cops can put in a presence (more likely PCSO) at start/chucking out time.

 

One or two FPNs for obstruction (ie criminal court matters) tends to get through to the parent body in my experience.

[breeze1996]

Why not put some of the spikes down.

 

The ones that let you drive in but not out.

 

then they will ruin the tyres if they don't have to come and ask to be let out. Like a naughty school child.

[WAVE_131]

Should have been towed and subject to a controlled explosion

 

Awww would that be you?

 

Fitting a barrier is not always cost effective or practicle

 

1) Correct, agree.

 

2) Nope.

 

3) But is sometimes.

 

I apologise for repeating myself but I cannot understand why any landowner would employ a firm to keep "illegal" parkers off their land when it is in fact in the interests of that firm to have "illegal" parkers to prey on!

 

Given this fact you WILL have problems. Let us consider the damage done to a busness when a "legal" parker, say a valued customer, parks his BMW over the white bay markings because the bay is too small, or the clamper thinks he is not a bona fide customer. I am not refering to a shop or store but a "small business".

 

Remember the type of person who tends to run or own these companies. It is significant that when the government started to licence clampers they gave the job to the organisation which licenced "bouncers".

 

Get a barrier!

[Guest banned]

The OP has requested opinion on his options. If other users wish to bicker and score points with each other, your posts will be moderated and this thread closed.

 

Users are reminded that if you have a different point that you wish to raise, start your own thread.

 

 

An intelligent, reasonable moderator...

 

Nothing like that over at CUK, is there guys?:-|

If there was maybe it wouldn't be the childish carp site it is today.

[Genepool1]

If there was maybe it wouldn't be the childish carp site it is today.

 

Sounds a bit fishy to me.What is CUK anyway?

[Guest pdyke14856]

CUK. I think i've heard of it, I think it's some kind of Clampers forum.

[Guest pdyke14856]

So in conclusion based on the replies from posters on this board

 

1) Dont have a car park - Thanks very helpful

2) Put in an automatic barrier - Shared drive, cost running into £1000s, business owner pays(Tax is only paid when you make a profit, managing the car park in this way comes straight out of the individuals pocket)

3) Put up more signs and ask them to leave politely, the English are very polite you know - Not the feral proles who park, plus I pay again

4) PPN - Well thats not legal and anyone who can read will come here and challenge it. It's illegal you know you evil money grabbing landowner. But only the literate web users will know that and in fact, they're the ones who now get aggressive 'We know the law!!!'

5) Erect Fencing and Chains - Well yes, its about £400 to do. But will be ongoing costs to repair and without 4 (which you say is illegal) I will still have problems with people damaging it and parking in it.

6) Put spikes that go down on the way in - Great, so Im responsible for paying for the damage to the idiot who tries to get out, plus it's a shared drive

7) Put up clamping signs and let clampers do their thing. It costs me nothing and as long as the signs are big enough and they are SIA registered then it's all legal and costs me nothing. Eventually people will get the message.

 

Well thanks to all who have contributed. Well done, I truly think that this website has allowed me to make my decision. There doesnt actually seem a real alternative to clamping.

[Bookworm]

*sound of dummy being thrown out of pram when people get told they have to obey the law".

[ceebee]

I have an office on a business park and we pay for 6 parking spaces. Next to our office is a garage and often people leave their cars in our spaces whilst they drop them off at the garage. We always ask people nicely to move and they understand and comply. Occasionally we do get people thinking they can park in what are clearly defined spaces and the way we deal with it is a standard sheet of A4 paper stating 'this is a reserved parking space for office please do not park here again'. We stick these to the windscreen on the drivers side using a glue that comes off with effort but would not cause damage. Its amazing how when people are inconvienced in return, scraping the paper off, they dont try it again. See there is an easy answer.

[My Real Name]

-e-

Edited September 17, 2008 by My Real Name

[crem]

We stick these to the windscreen on the drivers side using a glue that comes off with effort but would not cause damage. Its amazing how when people are inconvienced in return, scraping the paper off, they dont try it again. See there is an easy answer.

 

As far as I understand, it is illegal to stick something on a car windscreen which can obscure the driver's view that cannot be immediately removed. i.e. must peel straight off leaving no residue. The reason being that if a driver continued to drive without removing the notice and had a crash you could be cited as causing the crash.

 

You imply it "comes off with effort" which sounds like you may need to use a scaper or warm soapy water to remove, both of which would not be readily available at the site. I would suggest you check into this further before someone actually reports you for an offence. In the meantime it might be advisable to stick it on another window which would not be deemed to be obstructing the driver's view for safety. (eg rear window driver's side)

[Al27]

1) Dont have a car park - Thanks very helpful

If the only person allowed to reply must have a car park, I suspect this thread would have a fair bit of tumbleweed flying around.

 

4) PPN - Well thats not legal and anyone who can read will come here and challenge it. It's illegal you know you evil money grabbing landowner. But only the literate web users will know that and in fact, they're the ones who now get aggressive 'We know the law!!!'

 

Regardless of how you (wrongly) perceive the people on here and the advice they give, people do tend to go on the internet when they get one of these invoices and they do get told to ignore it. Nobody is going to tell someone to pay something when they are under no obligation to. To say otherwise is just wrong.

 

3) Put up more signs and ask them to leave politely, the English are very polite you know - Not the feral proles who park, plus I pay again

 

Well, since you haven't tried it properly, you can't knock it. And sarcasm regarding the advice I gave isn't on, is it?

 

7) Put up clamping signs and let clampers do their thing. It costs me nothing and as long as the signs are big enough and they are SIA registered then it's all legal and costs me nothing. Eventually people will get the message.

 

Bear in mind that as landowner, you could be jointly sued along with the clamping company and have to deal with writing defences and taking a morning or two off each year to go to court.

 

Just making you aware of the possibility.